rkalkul

Here is the reply i got from Ecogra concerning my complaint about winnings confiscation. Those of you who know the subject: please comment the statement by Ecogra that the playing equal 2$ bets on Casino War reduces the house edge of the game close to the ZERO. For me it is an absolute absurd. For them- the reason to take my winnings from me.

*****

Dear R,



We have investigated your query with the casino and have made the following findings;



You purchased £60 and redeemed the sign up offer of £90 on the 6th of July 2007.
On the 11th of July you started wagering and placed 3 wagers on the game of Roulette. The 3 bets amounted to £150 (the deposit and bonus combined)
You won £300 on each of your 3 wagers
You then proceeded to play 2576 bets of £2 on the game of Casino War.


You were required to meet the following play through requirement:



£90 bonus * 30 play through requirement = £2700
Since you played Roulette to the value of £450, the play through contribution from this game only counts £180 (40% of £450) and
Your play on Casino War, contributed £2576 (50% of £5152).


However, the manner in which you met your play through requirements on Casino War is covered in the term:



Before any withdrawals are processed, your play will be reviewed for any irregular playing patterns e.g . playing of equal, zero margin bets or hedge betting, which all shall be considered irregular gaming for bonus play-through requirement purposes.


Other examples of irregular game play include but are not limited to, placing single bets using your entire or the majority of your account balance, where the majority of that balance is made up of bonus balance. The Casino reserves the right to decide in its sole discretion which activities constitute "irregular play" for bonus play-through requirement purposes from time-to-time and to withhold any cash-ins where irregular play has occurred to meet bonus play-through requirements.



Equal betting is considered irregular gaming for bonus play-through requirement purposes, according to the published T&C's at the time of accepting their bonus offer. The fact that you proceeded to place 2576 individual bets of £2 each on casino war in order to meet the play-through requirements in a manner that reduces the margin of the game close to zero, in our opinion is equal betting. I regret that we support the casino's decision to withhold your winnings and return your deposit to you."



Regards,

Tex Rees

bonuslover

This percentage bonus bullsh*t is absolute nonsense.
Why don't they just give non-withdrawable bonus with a limite set of games (all contributing 100%) like Playtech casinos do?


__________________
my site


[oh and yeah, please note that I am a heavy supporter of Microgaming Casinos]

KasinoKing

Speaking totally personally as a player who has made a considerable income from using casino bonuses I totally agree... with the casino.

Your type of play is the reason why bonus WR's are getting tighter & harder for us 'advantage players' .
It was clearly a 'bonus abusers' style, and you can not possibly say that it was not or that you were not warned:-

^ ^ That's really good!

I too heavily support Microgaming casinos... No! Come to think of it THEY support ME with all the money I win off their bonuses!
(Slots only - no way they can call that abuse! )
_________________________
I've got a website too!

caruso

Hey BL, I love your new site.

BingoT

LOL LOL

caruso

The hypocrisy of this statement is sickening.

"Advantage players" play with positive expectation, usually through bonuses. Whatever your style of play, if that style yields positive expectation then you are in this category. If your (KK) low rolling slot play yields an edge, you are in this category. Call it "advantage player", "bonus hunter", "bonus abuser" or whatever, you are in the same category - let's call it "positive expectation player" for absolute precision. Whatever may have come to pass because of positive expectation players, that situation has been created by these players en masse. This may be greater wagering for bonuses, more game restrictions, more "bonus abuse" bullsh*t from casinos...whatever.

To play a positive expectation style, yab about it in just about every post you write - and then claim that other players in just the same category are in some way "dishonest" where you are not, is hypocrisy of the worst kind.

KasinoKing

Two styles of playing bonuses:

1. "You purchased £60 and redeemed the sign up offer of £90 on the 6th of July 2007.
On the 11th of July you started wagering and placed 3 wagers on the game of Roulette. The 3 bets amounted to £150 (the deposit and bonus combined)
You won £300 on each of your 3 wagers
You then proceeded to play 2576 bets of £2 on the game of Casino War."

and
2. Playing slots right through WR starting with bets around 40c/spin & maxing out at around $2 per spin. The target being not to just get a 95% return on your wagering & sneak off with a tiny proportion of the bonus, but to play a 'system' where you quit when ahead on one slot & switch to a different one.

If you really can not see any difference between those two styles of play then I think you are seriously disillusioned and in no state to pass judgment on other peoples opinions.

If seeing the difference in those styles is hypocrisy then I am very happy to be a hypocrite!

KK

caruso

There aren't "two styles", yours and that of the rest of the universe; there are as many as there are games to play and various denominations at which to play them.

However you choose to play - or, if you pefer it, whatever "style" you choose - there is only one relevant criterion in terms of the casinos' bottom line: is your play profitable to them, or not? The casino doesn't give a rat's ass how you play beyond how that play affects their bottom line.

Now, your own play may well be borderline - judging by all the slotty nonsense I would say so (if you actually do play the way you claim), and as far as your example here goes, it would be grossly UNprofitable - slots, increasing bets, switching games etc etc. However, let's assume your play is not profitable to the casino, ie, you are my "positive expectation player", along with this other fellow here who played roulette and war.

You are saying: "We are both unprofitable customers to the casino. We both expect to leave with a profit. My unprofitableness is acceptable. His unprofitableness is not."

This is your hipocrisy.

KasinoKing

Of course I'm not alone - there are lots of other players who play like me too!

Now you're getting close, but it is not ME who is saying this - it is the CASINOs.
That is why they have the specific term about 'playing styles' which I highlighted in an earlier post.

A large number of bonus-related complaints on the forums are related to this 'bonus abuser' style of play (going for the BIG double up or more, then low-risk flat-betting the rest of the WR). If these players don't read the T&C's & think they can get away with it, who is to blame?

I have signed up to ca. 150 different online casinos to 'take advantage' of their sign-up bonuses and NOT ONCE have I ever had any winnings denied, and I have only been banned from further bonuses at 1 casino due to my playing 'style' (i.e. winning to frequently).

I do understand the point you are trying to make, and as in another thread, I agree it is down to the casino set the rules to prevent 'styles' of play they do not want.
But in this particular case I believe the casino did just that.