timbie

I have an account there since March 2005

I deposited there 17 times and cashout 3 times , two of the cashouts were big. I have been playing there for about 3 month from opening the account.

One of them was more than a 1000 and processed with no problem then I made a much bigger one 13,137 GBP and they paid only my deposits back(around 3000) . They claim I am 19 years old, and although their casino accept player of 18 or above they have an additional term that if the country you are coming from allow 21 or more then the country law is the valid one.


I explained them that they could ban me long ago if they wish and also microgaming casinos has an automatic setting that once you are not in legal age it won't let you register but they do not pay.

I was surprise that this excuse convinced Bryan Bailey and also ecogra


All my explanations to ecogra and Bryan did not help here are some emails to show the case


Hi A,

Sorry, I thought I had responded to you. You're probably way out of luck here. It's the jurisdiction where you are residing in, not where the servers are. It's always been this way for any casino. This is why they have the statement "The casino is limited to individuals of legal age of majority in their jurisdiction (the "Player")" You can find this statement at most any casino and I've never heard of a complaint that referred to where the gaming servers are. If it were applicable to where the servers are, then there wouldn't be a need for statements like this. They would also be breaching local laws as well. Let's say that where the server is, 18 is the age of majority for gambling. But if you are a nineteen-year-old gambling in a state or country that requires you to be 21 - you're breaking the law regardless where the servers are. It's the act of gambling, not the transfer of electrons and images.

Hope this makes sense, but I think you're out of luck.

You said you contacted the casino earlier and told them you were only 20? Please send me a copy of this email. Thanks!@

Sincerely,

Bryan


Dear A



I have investigated your query with the casino and have found that the reason you have not been paid your full cash-in amounts is that the casino has determined that you have not reached the legal age to gamble in your jurisdiction, Las Vegas. As such the casino has followed their Terms and Conditions and voided all play on your account and refunded your deposits.



Both eCOGRA and the Casino are committed to Responsible Gaming and take the issue of under-age gambling very seriously. eCOGRA requires players to be of legal gambling age in their home jurisdictions . The casino’s Terms and Conditions reflect this and I have copied the relevant sections of this for you;



2. Limitations


The casino is limited to individuals of legal age of majority in their jurisdiction (the "Player"). You cannot play under any circumstances if you are not at least eighteen years of age, however, should the legal age of majority in your jurisdiction be older than eighteen - you shall abide by those restrictions. Participation in the activities and games (the "Game") of this casino are open only to residents of those jurisdictions where such participation is legal.



The Player understands that the Game is for entertainment value only. The Player understands and acknowledges that no purchase is necessary or required to play the Game. If a Player wishes to play without betting money, he/she may do so.



Employees of Belle Vegas Casino, its licensees, distributors, wholesalers, affiliates, subsidiaries, advertising, promotion or other agencies, media partners, retailers and members of the immediate families of each are not eligible to participate in the Game.



Any and all play by any ineligible person shall be voided, including any winnings accruing to any ineligible person.



3. Participation


Participation at this online casino is at the sole option, discretion and risk of the Player. In particular, determination of the legality of real money casino play is the Player's sole responsibility. By placing real wagers, the Player warrants that he/she is legally able to do so within his/her jurisdiction and that he/she accepts that Belle Vegas Casino is unable to provide any warranties as to the legality or validity of their participation in real money play.



Please be aware that it would be irresponsible for either the casino or eCOGRA to condone under-age gambling in any form once the players legal age has been determined.



If you have any questions regarding the contents of this email, please feel to contact me.



Kind Regards,

Tex Ree

Nifty

Right.

So why didnt they BAN you from the Casino before this??? (They had 17 chances!!)

Could it have something to do with the amount you won maybe?? - of course it did. My bet is that if you had withdrawn only small amounts over the next 6 months you would have had no problem.

I have a question on this subject actually (for the ppl like Jetset and Grandmaster and Bethug who know the ropes) -

IF the Casino doesnt pay out a big win (like above for example), how does that affect the payout percentage for the other players?? Does the denied payout appear as an actual payout on the audit trail, even though they didnt pay it? Does it increase the casinos profit??

This question often enters my mind when there are maximum payout restrictions on match bonuses etc....surely it doesnt help other players?

Im starting to get a bit sick of online casinos pulling stunts....even the more reputable ones are doing it now. If you accept the deposit, (and award a bonus and all bonus terms are met), then PAY THE PLAYER!!

I seldom use bonuses now as its just not worth it.

Thanks!

Nifty

Bethug

Its not legal to play at any online casino, at any age in America. So there conclusion that tells me if I win fair and sqaure I want get paid.

That the case the casino should refund everybody in american that lost, since its not legal.

You cash out a few times no problem, but it became a problem, when you won a big some. That total bull crap

I will see if I can help you or point u to someone than can put pressure on them. If your statements are true. They should pay you

nafanny29

Thats the excuse they use if anyone OVER 21 wins a substantial amount I think.

luckystrike

yes, this is very unjust. It looks to me too much like an exuse for not paying and Bellavegas is acting not much better than a rogue taking this stance... Yes, they have a right to terminate your account but ONLY after paying all your winnings.

Dirk Diggler

Woah, this group of casinos just goes from worse to worse. I can't believe they're trying this trick. Pay up and then close account, don't try and steal winnings. This reminds me of a case when Kiss casino (sister to Giant vegas) tried to do exactly the same thing, which ended up with them closing.

The player appeared to commit no fraud (I take it you gave them your correct address, DoB etc when signing up?) so the casino has an obligation to pay the winnings if they took the bet.

They've got to be by far the worst lot to be approved by eCOGRA.

I can't believe eCOGRA have sided with the casino on this. They are really giving me less faith in the organisation each easy case they screw up.

I would point them to this thread and ask them to review their decision.

joeyl

Clearly the casino are not interested in underage gaming rules and regs until it suits them.

1) As a goodwill gesture, the player should be paid as before, then shut account.
2) Khanawake, IGC, PWC, Micro and anyone else remotely involved with licensing/running/regulating/auditing/promoting this casino should pull the rug from under this firm until a complete check of the player database is thoroughly inspected by a 3rd party for more underage gambling breaches.

Waiting for another big winner before underage gaming rules and regs are adhered to or even checked upon is nion gaming blasphemy.

This firm is rogue and then some and I shall most certainly be watching this space closely. I will surely be not alone.

timbie

The casinomeister is in favor of the casino
Ecogra is not supporting too

What should I do ? I tried to contact Microgaming but there is no contact info only if you want to open a casino.

I really do not know what to do, is there someone who can affect them to open their wallet and pay the winnings they stole from me ?

Bethug

timbie. I forward a email to them. Asking them to rethink there decision. But you did the right think after going to both groups. So players will put pressure on them.