Here's the solution to all the problems RTG is having. (This is not my idea; I got it from another webmaster who shall remain nameless, unless he wants to claim the credit for it.) I'm highly in favor of this, tho, as a player AND as a webmaster.

STOP giving bonuses! Most of these problems center around the granting of cash bonuses to players, to entice them to play at your casino.

GIVE greater COMPS instead - to real players. Rewarding only your real players would elimininate all this garbage. If you have some really good, steady, long term players, reward THEM with special, private bonuses.

Let's face it - RTG gives out the biggest bonuses in the biz, don't they? And they give them out the most freely. That's why all this garbage happens.

WooHoo!!! I agree a thousand percent!!!! That makes more sense than anything I've ever heard here!! If you're a REAL player and not there only to take advantage of or abuse a bonus, then this idea should spark interest in all REAL players, only the opposite will be offended or have something bad to say.

Ellen
www.videopokerplayer.com (http://www.videopokerplayer.com)

I totally agree.

Better customer database management, people. We have computers, we can do this.

i don't see how bonuses have anything to do wtih taking forever to pay people and or not answering emails and basically ignoring your players...

imo, bonuses are a great way to entice people to play at your casino, and to give them an extra chance to win and enjoy more games at your place..

sure, better comps overall would be great, too.. but i think the real problem for RTG is that they give licenses to people who don't know anything about customer service... (although there are some exceptions)

STOP giving bonuses! Most of these problems center around the granting of cash bonuses to players, to entice them to play at your casino.

GIVE greater COMPS instead - to real players. Rewarding only your real players would elimininate all this garbage. If you have some really good, steady, long term players, reward THEM with special, private bonuses.[/B][/QUOTE]

slycin--

Ignorance prevails (mine)! Help me out, please! I want to clarify what is meant by a 'bonus' as opposed to a 'comp'.

A bonus can be given to a 'real' player as well as a 'first time' player. Can we describe all 'comps' as incentives given to any player who has played a particular casino at least one time, thereby earning 'comps' as opposed to 'bonuses'?

Is there a possibility that many begin 'playing' because of 'bonus' money, people who would never make a wager without the incentive of free money. If this is so, do many of these people eventually depart from the 'bonus money' trough and become serious players adding to the strength of the industry as a whole?

As a 'real' player, I am in favor of this suggestion but I have to question what the ultimate impact on the industry would be.

I would ask casino executives if their business could survive without the constant influx of 'new' players originally attracted to their casino by bonus money?

Perhaps the answer to the possibility of dwindling casino numbers would be, 'Oh well'!

The good Dr. says casinos will never stop the bonuses. Only slot idiots would fall for this type of scheme (and there aren't enough of these degenerate, moronic, bonehead losers to go around). Smart players (like me) know the value of a real-honest-to-goodness-real-dollar-bonus, and we will just go to the casino that gives the bonuses.

I demand bonuses from all casinos. As an American who had a grandfather who fought in the WWII and saved the Euro-whip’s asses from the barbaric, Nazi jackboot faggots, I deserve a bonus every time I play. And f*ck-all if they don’t give me one up front.

Now the smart “C” owner would take it to P4K. That board is full of chain smoking, trailer trash, welfare-check-cashing losers. Them’s the “real gamblers” (read “real losers”) as they like to call themselves. Those fools would deposit little Suzy’s lunch money for a spin at the Wow Pot jackpot. Too bad they aren’t smart enough figure out that Microgaming is probably dumping those jackpots to friends and relatives (hey, don’t get mad at me, Sunny made the implication . . . . .

Now I must sign-off. No, I won’t regale you with more of my profound wisdom; no matter how much you beg—-maybe tomorrow kiddies. If I stay, I fear my Karma may go bad.

I am Dr. Bonus love, and I have the love for the bonuses. Give me bonuses you damn fool casinos—if you don’t I will send Caruso to kick your ass.

Ciao all!!

to me , i believe casino should just give comps, rtg has a fair software, that why they cant hang with giving out big bonus, that why boss media dont give out big bonus cause they have a fair game, and william hill.

if they dont have no money they cant pay, but if the casino is dum enought to give out big bonus they should pay or tell u your payment will take a little longer.

------------------
http://greedyways.com (http://greedyways.tripod.com) A man from the hood, that lays down the truth!!!

Good questions, GaryZ!

As a webmaster, I can tell you that we see the effect of freebies in our stats. We all know that when a new casino comes out with a no-deposit freebie, our income will go in the hole for a while (yes, we share the cost of the bonuses) before the 'real' players balance it out, so while a freebie or good bonus may attract a lot of players, it doesn't really convert them to depositing players like you would think.

When I'm saying comps, I mean cashable comp points built up thru play. Let the competition between casinos depend on that. Let it depend on customer service and payout percentages, like it should.

We all "say" we want online casinos to become as professional as land casinos, but here's the truth (at least about Nevada casinos);
Land Casinos don't hand you money when you walk in the door. After you've played there a while, they start comping things, but <u>only</u> after you've proven yourself to be a gambler. I gambled in Nevada for 15 years, and rarely paid for anything - rooms, food, tickets, cigs, even personal items. Even now, in New York State, I get playing money sent to me every week from an Indian Casino, but it's not cashable - only winnings above the play amount are.

The online equivalent to these things are cashable comp points earned thru play, perhaps gifts, printable gift certificates to places, private bonuses, etc. At one online casino I play at, I get a 30% bonus with <u>every</u> deposit I make; but I only got that after I'd been playing there a while.

I say this, RTG - drop the bonuses. Let the bonus abusers go to the other casinos. You may experience a drop in 'new' players, but it'll be balanced by the quality of the new players you do get. If you stop losing money to the abusers and wasting energy arguing with them, you'll be able to reward the real players with even more bonuses, and better customer service. <u>That</u> earns loyalty. Loyalty equals a huge return on investment.


------------------
SlyCin56
Video Poker Junkie.com (http://videopokerjunkie.com)
Gambling Portal Webmasters Association (http://www.gpwa.net/forum/)

Originally posted by slycin56:
Land Casinos don't hand you money when you walk in the door.

If you played 15 years in Las Vegas you must have visited glitter gulch and got the free money at the door of coin castle :D. :eek:

[This message has been edited by Woody0 (edited 08-14-2002).]

Land Casinos don't hand you money when you walk in the door.

Not quite true Slycin, oh serious one.

AC casinos send coupons worth real dollars to many of their customers. These coupons can be quite good. You can cash them and you can play or walk with the dough. These coupons are not cashback. They be real American dollars.

LV casinos do the same. PPE properties give real money to many of their players. Again, you can walk or your can play.

But . . . in both cases you have to establish yourself at the casino.

And . . . if you walks without playing you won't be getting thems tasty coupons in the mail.

But the point is, this money is not cashback. It is an extra coupon (bonus) worth real money.

However, as you say, many LV casinos also give play money. If you lose it, you lose it--no skin off your tushy. And if you win, you keep the winnings only and the chips are taken away . . . . . .

But even them's play chippies have real cash value if you know how to play them.

Oh and almost all American (God Bless America!!!) B&M casinos give:

- Cashback
- Free rooms & food and drinks and stuff like coolers and jackets (who cares about that cheap crap!)
- extra cash
- invites to tournaments that don't cost you nuthin' (online casinos think we are stupid enough to use our own money to play in tournaments).

So you see online casinos have to give the bonuses . . . if they don't we Americans are mostly smart enough to go to the "real" casinos where they treat us with respect.............

My advice to portal owners – find a new job, online casinos just aren’t making the dough everyone thought they would.

Now don't argue with me because I am smart and I am always right.

Ciao kiddies



[This message has been edited by Dr_Bonus_Love (edited 08-14-2002).]

My advice to portal owners – find a new job, online casinos just aren’t making the dough everyone thought they would.

Now don't argue with me because I am smart and I am always right.

Well, you can't be always right, because you're totally wrong with your first statement there! ;)

"Land Casinos don't hand you money when you walk in the door."

Harrah's, Stratosphere, Bellagio, Mirage...
do.

However, they get the player's information up front; the machines track the play for bonus eligibility; and players don't have to play *over* the stated amounts to get their money.

Land casinos do hand out money. They just do a better job of it than many online casinos. At the same time, they can show the player the other goodies (drinks. rooms. shows. indoor skydiving. buffet.) that the player will get on future trips--that's difficult for an online casino to do.

They also track all ATM transactions that happen under their roof. A lot of players don't know that ATM transactions *are not private* and that the ATM company sells that information to the casino.

Originally posted by Dr_Bonus_Love:
..... As an American who had a grandfather who fought in the WWII and saved the Euro-whip’s asses from the barbaric, Nazi jackboot faggots, I deserve a bonus every time I play. And f*ck-all if they don’t give me one up front.

Couldn't let this go without a fight! You ****ing moron!! Why do americans insist on ignoring history? You lot only came into the war 5 minutes before it finished, years after we had lost hundreds of thousands of men and women to the Nazis. As usual, you did as little as possible for the maximum amount of glory.

If you'd been there from the start, the war would have been finished literally years earlier and you could have then taken credit for defeating Hitler. How dare you sully the memory of Europe's finest hour!

If it wasn't for Britain's spitfire pilots. the germans would have invaded the UK and god knows what might have happened from there!

"Never in the field of human conflict was so much owed by so many to so few." Winston Churchill in an address to the House of Commons.

I am quite literally frothing at the mouth with anger! You are disgusting. Have a thought for the millions of "Euro whip-asses" (i've corrected your infantile grammar) who lost loved ones before the USA bothered to pull its finger out of its a*s and before you make any more juvenile and thoughtless remarks.

You ****ing pr*ck!

That got the detour in, probably just the way the unesteemed and provocative Dr Bonus Love thought it would.

It's irrelevant to this thread, which had some merit, so treat it with the contempt it deserves due to origin and resist the urge to abuse, man!

Many consultants and marketers have been warning about the pitfalls of online casino bonuses for yonks and recommending strong loyalty programs, yet they continue to multiply albeit with tighter conditions in more recent times. I would therefore guess that they are here to stay for awhile longer.

Slycin says that they are the root cause of many RTG disputes (there are other issues too)and I would for once concur with her that bonus disputes do seem to be the major cause of player-casino friction in terms of sheer volume.

That was a good plug for RTG too..."Let's face it - RTG gives out the biggest bonuses in the biz, don't they? And they give them out the most freely. That's why all this garbage happens."

I would say that the manner in which they are administered at certain casinos is behind the genuine disputes. Like those that encourage a player to wager on set T&Cs and then find a way to disqualify him or her - see Mary's list on another thread here)

I also agree with the comp points notion- I rarely play for bonuses now as given the streakiness of RTG VP(which btw has also many times worked in my favour!)I don't want to have to play through 8-10 times before having a cashout option- I can usually make more by cashing out partially and early than having to play through just to get a bonus I also have to play through.

While I will occasionally do new player bonus at RTG's- basically if the requirement is over 6 times I feel more comfortable just playing it straight (my opinion only eg tonite I signed up at angel citi but didn't use the bonus (8 times playthough)).

I have played many nights though on RTG converted comp points because of playing volume- so those I find useful.

A now unmentionable casino (RTG) also used to comp me $ reasonably often without asking probably due to volume and consistency of my play (not a high roller but consistent).

regards
Colly

WWII was won at the east front. Period! There was ofcourse a lot of suffer in the west too but it was rather like a minor skirmish compared to the blood-bath in Russia and eastern Europe.

Yleewolf - Not <u>all</u> Americans are like that. Not this American, and I know plenty more like me. He did it to act like an ignorant a**, to provoke a reaction. (love your name, btw)

Jetset - my statement about RTG bonuses was NOT a plug for them. :rolleyes: It was a statement made to back up my theory.

Sorry, all, if I'm wrong about Vegas. Gambler that I am, I've always preferred Reno. Last time I went to Vegas was '91, and I was so disgusted with the traffic then, that I've never really wanted to go back. Reno is looser and better with comps - or at least used to be. (In '97 there was a newspaper article about Vegas looking to Reno, specifically the Atlantis, to learn from their marketing - run by a woman. ;))

A bonus at an online casino is a lot like comps and cashback at a land based casino. You have to play to get both. Yes, there are some onlines that give free money for just signing up just line real casino will give free rooms up front. The big difference is that in land based casinos, if you don't play enough, they just don't give you any comps. They don't take your winnings and lock you out from the casino.

What ever happened to the "know your customer rule"?

How can they possibly know their customers when the player is there for the first time, and the casinos are not allowed to share a customer database?

Re: "Why do americans insist on ignoring history? You lot only came into the war 5 minutes before it finished, years after we had lost hundreds of thousands of men and women to the Nazis. As usual, you did as little as possible for the maximum amount of glory." Yleewolf - a lot kiwi veterans share your sentiments.