IMO, it's all but certain that Microgaming is dealing a non-random game and cheating players. Shame, shame shame.
http://bj21satellite.com/internet/

More rumormongering. You might as well say that Mcdonalds is using horse meat in their burgers because they've tasted funny lately.

Dirk D,

I agree with you absolutely. In fact, I made a vow to myself NEVER to play at any MG site again, bonuses notwithstanding. The more I think about it, the only reason I can see for MG casinos being able to offer single-deck BJ (and free chips, on top of that!) is their RNG's capability to deliver, uh, "predictable results."

What baffles me is why players put up with all sorts of abuse by online casinos in general. Are we really powerless to do anything to make them shape up?

Originally posted by Got2Bet:
More rumormongering. You might as well say that Mcdonalds is using horse meat in their burgers because they've tasted funny lately.

Spear,

You mean their NOT using horse meat??
Geeze... They had me fooled!! :eek: :eek:

"Mcdonalds is using horse meat in their burgers because they've tasted funny lately."

Do not believe in this rumour, this is simply not true, you see? How expensive are the horses, some prices are even astronomical!

For example, Affirmed, Citidancer, Danehill, Fairy Prawn King, Galileo, Geiger Counter, Marju, Northern Dancer, Seattle Slew, Secretariat, Zabeel....Just to name a few!

Can anyone name one expensive cow/ox/bull/baffalo that has one hundredth of the price?

Getting back to the topic - I remember seeing this allegation awhile back and this is some pretty serious stuff.

Was telling someone that it would be very easy to tweak card games and that operators would do it if they could. I mean, why wouldn't they if there was no chance of getting caught?

I am eagerly waiting for the day the Vegas heavyweights come on-line. If Reno has any oversight powers it will change the ballgame completely. One RTG manager told me that he was also looking forward to that day. I think he's nuts if he thinks he can compete.

My gut feeling is Microgaming deals a fair game. And all Tropika players were paid in full, not the half RTG paid TCO players. Microgaming deserves some credit. I will play there. Playtech is suscipious.

Why is Playtech suspicious?

Got2bet - i would say they taste funny when they have a sliced caterpillar in them :D
and Tedm playtech is suspicious because the people behind the software are gamblers - but they gamble with life :D :D :D :D

[This message has been edited by luckystrike (edited 05-10-2002).]

NEW YORKER, U MUST BE HIGH, MICRO BLACK JACK, IS NOT RADOM , NOR FAIR. YOU CANT SET YOUR BETS, THE DEALER GETS ONE CARD, U CAN LOSE 15 HANDS IN THE ROW NO MATTER WHAT U DO.
PLAY MICO, THEN PLAY BOSS AND TELL ME WHAT U THINK, EVEN PLAYTEC. MICRO BLACK JACK IS FIXED.

WHY NOT PLAY AT A GOLD CLUB, OR WILLIAM HILL, THEN A ARACADE LIKE SOFTWARE

Luckystrike -

Ewwwww... now THAT'S sick!

There have been a number of people in here - high rollers in fact - who have come out well ahead playing blackjack at Microgaming casinos. All you need to do is search for the threads.

Every time I hear this silly argument I think of losers who run into bad streaks. I have streaks like these at land-based casinos - does that mean they cheat? I have had this happen more than once at different casinos - surely all the casinos in Vegas cheat, right?

Stop whining and put up or shut up. I cannot believe the bull**** you guys toss.

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Spearmaster
Got2Bet - Online Gambling News and Information (http://www.got2bet.com)

got2bet, you deny that MG is non-random? Deny that if you are to compile statistics of plays that you will end up with a nearly 1% HA on BJ over extremely large sample sizes? (1 million hands!)


seems you are simply trying to protect your portal casino clients, nearly all of which that are prominently featured on your website are microgaming.

gotbet, micro black jack sucks, it not even close to a land base casino, not even close to boss casino or cyrto casinos,

explain to me why cant set your bets, why u have to bet in twos
why the dealer only get one card
i have done real well at micro casinos
but i have a rule, if i lose 4 in a row i go to another game, if u dont u will lose.
u another portal owner, that make alot of money from a funked up software maker

so if u keep it up i will curse, you with the curse of the crips and bloods

I asked for proof. Anyone who has it, prove it - and I will remove all Microgaming casinos from my site immediately and announce same to all online boards.

Have you proof? If not, pipe down.

As for defending casinos - why not ask one of the many people I have helped collect winnings for in the past? Or the one who just won a jackpot and is waiting to get paid?

All I hear are a bunch of bull****ters. In the last two years I have not seen one iota of proof from anyone. And in the meantime we have helped to expose bad casinos as well.
Including Microgaming ones, Boss Media ones, World Gaming ones, Gambling Software ones, RTG ones.

What have you done for anyone?

------------------
Spearmaster
Got2Bet - Online Gambling News and Information (http://www.got2bet.com)

Damian -

I went to SCHOOL with the Crips and Bloods. So that ain't going to cut it LOL.

------------------
Spearmaster
Got2Bet - Online Gambling News and Information (http://www.got2bet.com)

MR master, we slaves dont thinnk black jack at micro casinos is fair.

why cant i set my bets, masters
why does the dealer get one card, master

i am talking about softwares, not casinos
Which software do u think has the best black jack, u cant tell me micro, and if you do why

master, i will contiu to pic the cotton, didnt mean no problems, but do u think u can the misses to stop touching me at night.

edited out.

Be patient G2B. You will see. :)

[This message has been edited by nvaughan3 (edited 05-10-2002).]

Originally posted by damiandunlap:

master, i will contiu to pic the cotton, didnt mean no problems, but do u think u can the misses to stop touching me at night.

Damian: LMFAO...You crack me up. Have you ever thought about being a comedian??? Keep them coming!

OK...back on topic, I hate MG BJ too, it sucks...but rigged, I don't know.

You would think that some disgruntled x-employee would have come forward and spilled the beans by now, or do they kill all their x-employees?
:eek:

You would think that some disgruntled x-employee would have come forward and spilled the beans by now, or do they kill all their x-employees?

An ex-employee has, her name is Sunny. Ok, not an ex employee, but close enough.

Let's look at the facts.

- Many experienced card players suspect Microgaming's BJ game.

- PWC hasn't done an audit of the BJ game since 2000 and I highly doubt they will do another audit anytime soon.

- Now one of the most respected online casino groups on the Internet has made accusations about the fairness of Microgaming's games.

It could all be a lot of hot air, but I don't think we can dismiss the accusations out of hand. There is always a kernel of truth in every rumor.

hommie, dirk u broke it down,
why people not complaing about boss casinos black jack or sands, william hill, casue it fair, come on micro black jack it not fair

the dealer get one card
u cant set bets
that enough right there
u called that fair
come on man
u need to get some good weed
what the hell u smoking
some of my white homeboys have the best weed i know, what the hell u smoking, pic n save grown stuff. wake up people

i will say this i think riveblle might be fair, in random , but i only playes there a few times, but your cant set your bets and the deal still gets one card
if u a true player of black jack
u will go to willilm hill or gold club casino
nor do i like those casino with your can only bet one thur 10 buch games , that suck too, oh yeah global player is a good place too to play real black jack.
please someone explain micro black jack to me
please until i can set my bets, i will save my money for some good home grown sssshhiz

- Many experienced card players suspect Microgaming's BJ game.Many experienced players - whales in fact - have won large sums playing BJ and have said on these boards they believe the game is fair. - Now one of the most respected online casino groups on the Internet has made accusations about the fairness of Microgaming's games.Correction - unfounded accusations. Not even the slightest bit of useful information was provided. But strangely enough, I know exactly what was being referred to - and it was NOT the RNG NOR the BLACKJACK.
It could all be a lot of hot air, but I don't think we can dismiss the accusations out of hand. There is always a kernel of truth in every rumor.There was no truth in the rumor that Anna Kournikova was going to appear topless in Penthouse.



------------------
Spearmaster
Got2Bet - Online Gambling News and Information (http://www.got2bet.com)

master,
why didnt u answer my question?
do u think micro black jack is better than
boss black jack.
spearmasetr, the black jack games from the get go is funked up. And what whales, i bet u they rather play at boss or william hill,

Quote: "the dealer get one card
u cant set bets
that enough right there
u called that fair
come on man"

Hey, damian, be cool & sensible, man!

What we are discussing is MG dealing a rigged game & cheating players.

There is a confusion of logic. The dealer gets one card or the player can't set the bet size(to the nearest dollar) has nothing to do with the fairness(riggedness) of MG games.

Despite also that I personally dislike the bet chips DESIGN there, I am in no position to accuse MG of unfairness just because of this.

Despite you may disagree with the position of Mr. Master, considering his honesty shown in the past, you are in no position to call at him whatever you like.

hk gambler, that what i am talking about.
i dont care what he said in the pass , what is he saying now.
"What we are discussing is MG dealing a rigged game & cheating players"
that what u said right

i will say this one more time.
what land base casino, make u bet in twos or that u can bet 37 bucks

next, micro black jack dealer get one card
that rigged from the jump.

that why they can give out them high azz bonus. cause it will be a miracle if u come out on top.
it rigged from the jump, the terms and the game is not fair
what black jack is more real boss or micro?. what stuff u smoking.

gold club is the place,
winnerplayground the place
funk micro blackjack

please tell me boss or micro black jack
which one is more like a land base casino
wait micro blackjack is like those video slots black jack that they have there onland
a real player will never play there
a real land player plays at a table
and u no what u can bet 23, bucks 57 bucks
if u like like boss casinos, can u do that micro casino hell no

rigged from the jump

Having said all that, I am in no position to for or against whether MG BJ games are rigged.

The fact is, there are sore losers out there, but to be equated by there are gaming softwares that can easily be tweaked. And since players are almost impossible to PROVE a cheating software, they can always base on what they feel. Their feelings are sometimes justified, sometimes not. But if so many experienced players share the same feeling, other players will have to take cautions.

This time, the accusation was not from a sore loser who whined, it was made official by an ex-licencee, that we should take it very seriously.

In this case, I wondered why the high officials of Microgaming did not care to defend their reputations by themselves. They must come up to clarify if it is not true. Keeping silent to me means admitting guilts without a righteous cause to put forward.

Their words & information weigh heavier than anybody else. At least they can explain to the players how their RNG really worked, how their security was safeguarded to prevent the licencee operators to change payouts individually, and most of all, if they can convince us why they should have cheated, it'll be a big big plus for themselves.

I repeat, nobody can defend better than themselves. It is their interest in the first place. Players would remain suspicious too if no powerful disproof surfaced to crack down the rumours.

Damian,

There is nothing wrong with the dealer only getting one card. It's common all over Europe. ENHC, European No Hole Card.
Look into it.

Microgaming is perfectly justified in using this rule, just as RTG casinos have the right
to offer 6/5 Jacks or Better VP.

cl, i am from america, i dont care how they play there, only place i care about outside of america is were they sell the good weed.

cl so in euro u can bet in twos
can u set your bet, do u lose on every double
cl, have u played goldcllub, so u tell me which casino has the better black jack
tell me, know of u will, i see

i care about outside of america is were they sell the good weed.

Don't do that stuff, it makes your eyes glassy and people tend to act goofy after three or four bong hits ;-)



[This message has been edited by Dirk_Dangerous (edited 05-11-2002).]

Mr. Master.

I like that. Looks like thats your new name Spear.

You said:
"Correction - unfounded accusations. Not even the slightest bit of useful information was provided. But strangely enough, I know exactly what was being referred to - and it was NOT the RNG NOR the BLACKJACK."

What was being referring to since you know? If you could explain it would really help.

[This message has been edited by slotski (edited 05-11-2002).]

I think it would be better if Sunny revealed it themselves. But if one takes a look at the first release they sent out last month, perhaps they might find some clues there.

In any case, it is also another unsubstantiated allegation.

------------------
Spearmaster
Got2Bet - Online Gambling News and Information (http://www.got2bet.com)

McDonalds are not using horse meat - too expensive. They using meat from homeless dogs..

1) the OPA has reported now that they are going to benig a payout percentage verification for some of tehir approved casinos.

Once this will be a reality, players that will send them their play logs will probably help in monitoring.

They are also planning to track RNG reliability but this is now under construction and planning.

2) MG DID show PWC reports for several months of 2002, as I saw by myself at several (I think Orbital and GamingClub but not sure yet in which casinos)

Although there is always the possibility of rigged software ,It seems difficult to detect and prove through normal play .Although you can never be to sure I feel that the real enemy in any wagering random event that hurts the player's trust the most is negative variance. Losing streaks can be severe specifically if your luck has been running bad for some time.Remeber Microgamming blackjack gets a tremendous amount of play,as a result players who log in alot of time at the microgamming tables will will go through up and down cycles,sometimes severe.For example: I do rather well at microgaming BJ even though I do not like the rules ,it seems like lady luck for the most part is on my side.On the other hand I can not win at a Playtech casino even though I like the rules and software,and use carefull play,at first I felt cheated by rigged software but my loses are most likely do to short term negative variation and not rigged software,hopefully my luck will change.Furthermore we do not really know how many players are using a sound basic strategy ,or size of thier bets, all of which effect variance. Overall gamblers should keep bets reasonable to the size of there bank roll,and use proper basic stategy.More importantly good luck to everyone!!!!

Damian,

I love your grammar. As a fellow minority...I have to say that you are representing your "peoples" in a fantastic way.

Your point that Microgaming's BJ is rigged because...

"explain to me why cant set your bets, why u have to bet in twos
why the dealer only get one card"

...is like saying that it is rigged because the table is blue or that the cards are too big.

It is a friggin game. You play the game by its rules. If you don't like the rules then you play another game. It doesn't make it right or wrong. Just different.

I don't care if any of you send the OPA your logs it will not make a difference. There is no possible way to determine if a game is rigged unless you play a ton of hands...I am talking hundreds of thousands. Sending them ten or a hundred or even a thousand hands will not statistically prove anything.

See ya

mustang, i no u do love my grammer, i dont care if u a minority or not, did u have books in school, we didint , do u care nope. next thing i dont play at micro, but i will give my opinon on anything i like, micro black jack is ****ty it compare to william hill or boss black jack.
all so we didnt have air or heat, looking at the paper we still dont.

so mustang next, come to compton so we can talk about this men to whaterver u are. bring some green stuff, cause i know i need to high around a unlce tom

Pulling out the Uncle Tom card? Oh man that hurts... :)

Sounds like you have been working on a good excuse for being lazy.

I decided to take responsibility for myself not blame my problems on other people.

Stop acting like a victim and get off your ass.

See ya

mustang , u dont know me , i got off my azz, i am a real estate broker, in the hood, make ok money, bank account can prove it, next . you know how many of my friends , have died over colors alot. friends dieing left and right , or in jail only a few left, didnt run, went to college, i know it dont seem like by my grammer and spelling, but i pass. u can check me out, go to search engine
type (dre ca) type my name. i am not a minority, i am a zigger, put a n where the z. i dont think u even real hommie, tell what does mark mean. i think more real black jack players think micro is a fake black jack. like i ask , which one u think is better boss or micro. trix

I like Micro better...had better luck. People like the games where they win. If they don't win they blame it on the game.

It is all about the yayo.

Sorry...I know what a mark is...and I ain't no mark. :)

See ya

[This message has been edited by mustang (edited 05-13-2002).]

I've got to say, something has changed with Microgaming software in the past 2 weeks. I've been getting my ass kicked in every Microgaming casino I've played the past 2 weeks. There is no way you can tell me the Microgaming software is random.

I'm sure this will sound familiar to you.....Dealer gets 10, player gets 12,13,14 or 15 and busts. The number of times this happens based on percentage chances of not busting is horribly disproportionate towards favoring the casino.

I just finished playing a Microgaming casino a few minutes ago. I'm sure this will sound familiar to you too. In 200 hands, the dealer drew a 123 10's as a first card. If you count 10's and 9's, the dealer drew 144. Tell me how random that is!

GC: "I feel your pain". Stop playing BJ at Microgaming. People will say you're just whining, sore loser, etc., and there is really nothing you or anyone else can do. I believe you, I quit play BJ there weeks ago, I just go in to play slots and VP now if someone sends me a bonus I can't refuse. It sucks...but what can you do?

Excerpts on game-rigging from an article by Michael Shackleford (The Wizard of Odds) just up at Winneronline:

If Blackjack and video poker give you the best odds, what gives the worst?
Usually, it's keno.

A lot of people complain that online games are rigged. Any guess what percentage of Net casinos run a fair game?
I think the answer is somewhere between 90- and 99 percent. I'm quite confident that all of the major software companies (like Microgaming, Boss Media, CryptoLogic, Playtech, Real Time Gaming, World Gaming, IQ-Ludorum), are playing fairly.

Smaller companies are where I'm much more concerned. I have written in depth about my issues with MGM Gaming Systems. I also have had very strong suspicions about I-Global Media but they have evidently corrected themselves. I plan to start offering a service to personally verify that games are playing fairly. Look for my certification of fairness later this year.

How would a casino cheat players? By manipulating with the random number generator?
Casinos that are cheating are likely not manipulating the RNG. Rather, they are tampering with the game code to keep the player down. One way they might do that is to play fairly 95% of the time and predestine the player to lose the other 5%.

How can players tell the difference between an unfair game and a run of bad luck?
It takes a large sampling of data. The less the casino is cheating, the more sampling it will take to show it. When people make accusations of cheating to me, I request to see the results of at least 1000 bets. By putting the results through statistical test I can determine the probability of the player's losses.

If the probability [of getting those results] is 1 in 100, that is probably just bad luck. If the probability is 1 in a billion then it's probably cheating. Granted, there are gray areas in between but where I have found cheating in the past it was quite obvious and corroborated by other sources. Usually, it's just bad luck. Many players don't seem to understand just how volatile a fair game can be.

Hi
where did you read that? sounds interesting, I would like to read it

Originally posted by gc:
I just finished playing a Microgaming casino a few minutes ago. I'm sure this will sound familiar to you too. In 200 hands, the dealer drew a 123 10's as a first card. If you count 10's and 9's, the dealer drew 144. Tell me how random that is!

if out of 200 handds 123 hands the dealer got a 10 as first card this has a probability of 3.39E-19 i.e. 1/2,500,000,000,000,000,000

IF this is correct that is a clear evidence of MG cheating. May you provide us with the play logs (including the specific cards dealt which you can get from the playcheck by clicking on the link for each specific game and save it as a different file)?

Front page article on this very site.

I dont take any public BBS posting as clear evidence of cheating. Show me screenshots of playcheck and I'd believe it, otherwise I'm taking it with a grain of salt.

While I respect shackleford, I dont agree with some of the above comments by him. MG's HA over the long run is nowhere near what it should be. Based on long term results Its clear to me that its about .6-1%.

I also think its highly likely some software or individual casinos are tampering with the RNG. It would be very easy to slip the dealer an extra 10-15% more aces (for example), resulting in an increased HA. And 1000 is not enough to calculate if a game is fair, I'd demand at least a million hands or so.