There is an ongoing battle between Players, Vic’s Bingo, Bingo Hall, and all it’s sister sites along with Revenue Giants that handle the affiliate program and Parlay Software! This issue is very hot and drawing a lot of attention at BPU and OBN forums. It’s time the readers and members of WOL hear about this gross injustice that Bingo Hall President Jon Daley has pulled on not only his players, but also its Affiliates.

My only goal with this post is to set the stage for what is to follow. I will put a link to this thread in my forum and the people that have undergone this injustice will be coming here, register and wait for their post to be moderated and posted. It will be slow at first, but worth the wait! I could fill you in but think it best that the Players affected by this issue speak First.

Hello,
My username at Vicbingo was merely Foo.
I was a member there for 4 years. I had mostly played bingo, and never won enough for a cashout.

Last November, I started playing Keno, and finally found something I could win. I started playing it almost constantly when not at work.

On January 18, they did an upgrade on their software. It added 50 cents and 1 dollar bets to the existing nickels and quarters.

The week prior to March 6, after depositing $600.00 that week, I hit 8 our of 8 numbers in Keno, three times, which pays 10,000 credits. I was betting 50 cents, so that was three $5000.00 hits. Of course I kept playing, and on Sunday March 5, I submitted a cashout request for $9800.00, leaving $2100.00 in my account to play with.

On Monday, March 6, I got an email from Cristie, accounts manager, saying that my cashout had been processed and would be in my Neteller account in 5 to 10 business days. She also said that after reviewing my account, management had decided to disable my account "permanently". I wrote her back and asked about my other $2100.00. She wrote back saying that it would likely be sent to my Neteller account as well, but that she would get back to me in a day or two. She did not.

I couldnt get anyone to talk to me after that. I went to Winwardgaminggroup, which I found at the bottom of the Vics homepage, and that opened a page for RevenueGiants. In the 'contacts' section, I found phone numbers for Cristie, and for Marco, manager.

I called Cristie first, and her phone was very staticky, so I called Marco. He told me that they were doing an "audit" of all the games played because they could not figure out how I (and others) could have won so much. I told him I welcomed this "audit" as I had done nothing wrong. (in my reconcile report, it was common to have 4 to 7 thousand entries per day). He said that he would personally get involved in the "audit" so that a conclusion could be reached quickly that everyone would be happy with. He promised to call me the next week, verifying my phone number. He never did.

The next day, the phone numbers had been taken off the web page.

Neither Marco or Cristie would answer my emails anymore.

I heard from others still playing at the site, that Marco had been telling people behind the scenes, that me and my associates had somehow created a program with which to cheat. I also heard that Tina, the chat manager, had said in chat, that there was more to the story than we got kicked out for winning too much.

I finally sent an email to Jon Daley, who I believe is the owner. He promptly wrote me back and was very polite. He told me their software provider, Parlay Entertainment, they had completed the "audit" and discovered a "malfunction" causing the same numbers to pay off on Keno repeatedly.

He said we certainly had not cheated or acted in any "foul" manner. He said we had simply inadvertantly taken advantage of a "malfunctioning" game. He said he would not pay anything won due to a malfunction. He said that he would look at my account, and refund what ever amount I had in my account at the time of the upgrade. He said no wins OR losses would be paid as result of the "malfunction". He sent $1500.00 to my Neteller account.

I started trying to contact Parlay Entertainment, the software providers, who Jon said had conducted the "audit" and had discovered the "malfunction". It took weeks, but I finally heard from Parlay. They told me that they are simply a software provider, who licenses their software to the site. They said they dont usually get involved in disputes with sites and players, but they were taking my complaint very seriously. They said they were currently in contact with Vics, and were looking into the matter.

Doesnt sound to me like they were even aware of the issue, and Jon said they conducted the "audit" and found the "malfunction".

I did not start winning at Keno in January at the time of the upgrade. I started winning at Keno in November. The upgrade had nothing to do with it.

I started posting this issue in forums letting people know what happened to me and could happen to them. The response I got from other players, members at Vics, and former members, was astounding.

One long time member sent me a personal email expressing her opinion of the matter. Somehow, Tina, the chatmaganer, got hold of this email. Now this players account is disabled. A few days ago, one of her friends, who was also a long term member, got her account disabled as well.

I have kept all correspondence I have had regarding this matter, and can prove what I say is true.

I, and many others are currently boycotting Vics, their sister sites, and affiliates.

If we, as players, do not stand together and expose these crooked sites as what they are, they will continue to cheat people out of their money.

Thank you for offering this forum in which to keep people informed.


"You have to stand for something, or you'll fall for anything."

this is a serious issue with vics and bingohall. if the upgrade was not done until mid jan and the players cashed out ( at least foo did ) in early march. why was this problem not noticed right after the upgrade? not over a month later when players were cashing out. Vics tried to claim that any player who played the keno machine was sure to be a 100% winner........... not true as other players confirmed they did not win on this game and I noticed one who claims she stopped winning since the upgrade. vics and bingohall is down right scamming these players out of their winnings. they can continue to excuse themselves for this "malfunctioning" machine all they want. Vics not only disabled the accounts of the players who won, but they disabled other accounts as well. my account was disabled as well. so with all the accounts they disabled, the players they have banned from the chat for standing up for the players who have won ( who most liking won't take this poor treatment and go elsewhere) and the players who have left at free will for feeling vics has done the winners wrong. they make jokes about these players in the chat room and call them the disgruntled ones. how would those players feel if it were them who had won and lost their accounts and monies earned and was screwed around unfairly??? how is vics still managing business at this point? foo has deposited more money at vics then she could imagine cashing out with so why is it so far for vics to play up the monies she won? and I am sure the same could be said for the others.

Well said identity.

identitycrisis said:
who most liking won't take this poor treatment and go elsewhere

The picture I am getting along with your thoughts are that players are getting more and more hesitant to play ANYWHERE, partly because Vic's has done a job on some players. Players are beginning to know that sites can and some DO cheat their players. Vic's has proved this to me and many more!

Why take a chance anywhere, when, if you sign the dotted line (simply by registering to play) stating that you will abide by their rules?

It is the rules that catches us players or EX players. Vic's threw that very fact in our faces when they emailed Foo and reminded her of them. Ever notice how MOST rules are well hidden, or not all in one place, or worded so that the common person has a hard time understanding them?

Ask questions folks! Read and ask questions!

I recently took this player issue to casinoaffiliateprograms CAP! Our goal was to bring the vic’s malfunction to the attention of Affiliates and hopefully put pressure on Vic’s to right a wrong. Dominique is a Mod there and soon used her position to cast suspicion on my player post. When a CAP member inquired about my background she was quick to respond with: Cyalater posts at other forums, shows no interest in the general forum as a rule except for his agenda and is not a supportive in any forum other than his own. She had more negative comments about me, but you get my drift.

I was at CAP to present a very important player issue. Dominique sabotaged my efforts at every chance she had. Professor did step in at one point and told all to behave. When the discussion continued and Dominique continued to Flame me I kept the course and stayed with the subject. A post was made by the affiliate people that represent vic’s and they posted the subject was now closed to public discussion, and players can pound salt! I made a rebuttal post to that ! Went to bed and woke up to all hell breaking loose.

Seems the Professor came unglued! Changed my thread topic from Vic's Bingo! a disappointment to affiliates and players!!! To Vic’s Attacked by self promoter! He went in and changed the words in my post to ridicule me. Here is an example of my original (partial) post and my post after Professor edited it. This is only one post he edited about all I made in that thread.
Cyalater said in a response to a negative post from Dominique:
Thank you for your unfounded negative comments about me. Seems to me as a Moderator here, you should be keeping your personal remarks, as to my character, to yourself, unless you are ready to back them up. I didn’t post in this forum to be insulted and will not just sit back and take it! The issue I present here is a Player and Affiliate issue, this was well under way, before I got involved. My roll in this is only to present it and only because the people involved do not have access to your forum.

I have been around the player forums with the Name Cyalater8 for a few years now. My main focus has always been warning players of Bingo Sites that are found to be not Fair & Square. I’m considered to be one of the top Bingo Watch Dogs and enjoy the reputation of being fair. If I do a negative post about a site I back in up with facts and Data. Even Marco from Bingo Hall has posted favorable comments about my honesty. I have defended actions of Bingo Hall, Party Bingo and other Bingo Sites.

My Post after PROFESSOR edited it:

Thank you for your unfounded negative comments about me. Seems to me as a Moderator here, you should be keeping your personal remarks, as to my character, to yourself, unless you are ready to back them up. I didn’t post in this forum to be insulted and will not just sit back and take it! The issue I present here is a Player and Affiliate issue, this was well under way, before I got involved. My roll in this is to shamelessly promote myself and hopefully get a few visitors to my forum.

I have been around the player forums with the Name Cyalater8 for a few years now. My main focus has always been flaming message boards and making a nusiance of myself. I’m considered to be a trouble maker and enjoy that reputation of being a **** stirer. If I do a negative post about a site I back in up with facts and Data. Even Marco from Bingo Hall has posted favorable comments about my honesty. I have defended actions of Bingo Hall, Party Bingo and other Bingo Sites.

Last edited by Professor : Today at 07:34 AM.

Here is [b]professors[/b ] final farewell to me!
Professor Said:
Cyalater I see you put a lot of forethought into choosing your board name here. You knew the whole purpose of your brief visit to CAP here was basically a self promoting drive by where you would materialize, stir up controversy, incite people, paint yourself as a defender of the little people and then be subsequently banned for your behavior.

You ride off into the sunset as a Martyr, right? Well we have seen your beligerent type before and you were correct in one thing, you are being shown the door (something you are used to and desiring)

The only problem with this plot is I am also going to archive your thread so other then work up a little adrenaline all you have accomplished is to waste a little of everyones iTime.

Cya later A-hole (but spelled it out in detail)
Oh and by the way... No Back Links for you either butt head. Links and Sigs are being removed
__________________

If there is any A-hole here it’s him! I always cover my butt. I have copies of my original posts and screen shots of his improvements to them lol. This guy must think I’m an Idiot! Hard to believe any administrator or moderator would tamper with any members post in an effort to discredit them. This is the lowest of lows.
If ya looking for an honest Affiliate Forum look elsewhere.

If Dominique wants to engage in a discussion on this topic here, I’m sure there are many behind me that have questions for you.

I have been gone for a while I see nothing has changed bad sites are still cheating people looks like this cap forum is as bad as the cheater sites something really needs to be done.

Boycotts are a good tool against these bad sites but the only way to to make any huge differance in the industry is regulations in the usa.All watchdog sites should be pushing this agenda only when the threat of regulations looks real to the industry will they set up and take notice.Untill then nothing will change they will continue to cheat honest players.

Dominique we may agree on Zany Bingo, But we sure differ on a boycott of Vic's / Bingo Hall! I was a big supporter and defender of Vic's / Bingo Hall until I started to get involved and read what disabled members, after 4 years of devotion to Vic’s received for their devotion. One player reached out and touched you! Named Foo! There are many stories like hers documented in the forums, How can you ignore them? Are they all misinformed ?

Vic’s / Bingo hall is enjoying the protection of big affiliates such as CAP. I believe the term the Professor used is Partner They have little regard to the concerns of the individual player. The players did send a representative to CAP to present the Vic’s / Bingo Hall issue. The issue was made a mockery of by that sites officials. The whole event and what transpired there was documented by the players who support CAP’s affiliates..

Hey! The Big Boys did their job and protected Vic’s / Bingo Hall from us Little People What the Professor and principals failed to see is: The little people got to see how you conduct business and how you will do whatever it takes to protect your interests. It’s all about $$$$$ with you guys and honesty is out the window. Enjoy your CAP victory, But the Little people will remember what you did!

Sorry! Did a Zany post in the Vic's thread! Moved my post to the right place!

Cya

I felt the need to address this topic. I am appalled at the unprofessional conduct of the proffessor at CAP. As a site admin myself, I find the concept of changing someones words to be so low it does not even register on the scale. There is no way it can be defended, and I believe this to be the reason for Dominiques silence on this issue. I do believe she may be as shocked and appalled as the rest of us, but once in business with them, how much of your own leg do you cut off to get out of the trap?
Also, as a responce for Giantkiller. I was about the only watchdog out here that stood for regulations. I was slammed by just about everyone for it. Just ask David. If he is honest he will tell you I was on my own with that one long ago. Most players back then were concerned for their privacy and not wanting "big brother" to be involved in their online gambling. But now as more and more comes to light, everyone wants the regulations. You all just figured out that you have no recourse with offshore sites, and they are getting more blatant in their thievery. Now that it si your wallets concerned, big brother is allowed in. This turnaround is a neon sign of just how much further these sites are going now. They can cheat much more now, because the few who have tried to go against them have met a brick wall, and they have grown in their confidence. But someday, that arrogance will be the downfall of them. Glad to see some of you have converted to the dark side. I was for regulation long ago, and I am sure you were one of the strongest voices against me then.

Well pretty much all bingo sites are "off shore."

When you talk about CAP, Vic's and Bingo Hall.. you are talking about sites with a solid reputation. Revenue Giants is popular with webmasters because they are percieved as above board. Typically the sites which are dishonest with players are also dishonest with partners and it generally shows in their marketing. This definitely is not the case with Revenue Giants.

Like all things, bad behavior repeats and eventually the truth is obvious... so although you may feel frustrated by people rallying behind the RG products -- it is because they have earned a good reputation and that doesn't go away over night. Being able to survive a few speed bumps is the benefit of earning a good reputation. If they are acting out of sorts, the truth will reveal itself. If Foo and any others put their story out there, then they are a big part of this important process.

I was just looking through your forum and I'm not sure why you have some of these sites in your "sites to avoid" column and others in your approved list. My experience and understanding is very different from yours on some of these sites. You have some sites in your sites to avoid which I percieve as very fair sites.. and even in the post your synopsis of them still sounds fair.. then you have at least one site in your approved list that I consider to be a viper through and through. Could this be the reason you have been met with some resistance by other webmasters? Because your advice seems to vary from the combined experience of so many in the industry?

Thank you for taking the time to review this issue! Our sites to avoid list contains site we believe have un fair rules. Each site on the list was looked at. If their rules gave , what we believe, an unfair advantage to the house, we need to inform our members of this. Non of these sites are regulates so most have different rules, some are easy to find, others are not. We based our finding on what players have already listed in the various forums as unfair advantage by the site. We adopted the criteria that if a site required requires more that 3 X your deposit to cash out, we are not going to recommend them for play.

Are our findings subjective? Yes! They are! But we do the best we can. If a site disagrees with our evaluation, they can always contact us and we are more than happy to review their rules. We have done this with some sites already and the result was acceptable to all parties.
bingoadvantage.com Said:

You have some sites in your sites to avoid which I percieve as very fair sites.. and even in the post your synopsis of them still sounds fair.

If a site is on our avoid list it does not mean they are shady or bad. It just that they have, what we believe, to be an unfair advantage. Thanks for the heads up, I will make it a point to be more clear on what sites are on that list.
bingoadvantage.com Said:
then you have at least one site in your approved list that I consider to be a viper through and through.

Now that really perks my interest! We really tried hard to come up this sites we felt were fair. The sites listed are sites various Staff members deemed honest. Most of the sites were reviewed by staff members that played there on their own dime and recorded data.
If you believe we have a site approved, that should not be there, I encourage you to pm or email me that sites name. We will use our resources to confirm or disprove your claim.

Yes our advice will vary, because are main focus is not to make money. If it were, my site would be covered with banners. I chose to become an affiliate, because I thought it would open doors that wouldn’t be available to just a non affiliate watchdog group.

We are here to protect the bingo players and give then a voice. We have only been open for 9 months and all this is a learning experience for us. We are learning by doing! We may make a mistake here and there, and perhaps, sites like yours will point then out to us.

As far as Revenue Giants, I enjoyed my affiliation with them. They are great people to work with. Unfortunately Jon Daley made a bad decision when he declared a software malfunction, that even Parlay Entertainment didn’t back up. Because of that we stand firmly behind the players that were denied their wins and continue the boycott of all Revenue Giants products.

:thumbsdn:

Personally, I like to get proof first and then ban the Bingo from my site.

It seems topsy turvy to me to ban first and find proof later.

But - any way to keep things clean is good. As long as the truth is actually sought out and attempts are made to keep the Bingo industry clean, it's beneficial.

I hear Zany is under new ownership and is being run completely different. This is one place I would not tolerate on my site so far.

Has anyone any experiences since the changeover?

Dominique Said: Personally, I like to get proof first and then ban the Bingo from my site. It seems topsy turvy to me to ban first and find proof later.
Are you implying we ban sites for no reasons at all than go out and hopefully find proof we were right? If so that’s an insult to what we do.

Proof that Jon Daley (Vic’s Bingo) cheated players out of their winning was fully presented to you at the Caps Forum, I also know Foo sent you her statement on that incident. All was ignored because Revenue Giant is Big Business and affiliates like yourself get big checks from them. So if the company cheats a few of its players, naturally you are going to ignore the facts and look the other way.

As far as Zany goes I suggest you check that thread, this is the Vic’s thread.

:thumbsdn:

Dominique Said:
Are you implying we ban sites for no reasons at all than go out and hopefully find proof we were right? If so that’s an insult to what we do.

Proof that Jon Daley (Vic’s Bingo) cheated players out of their winning was fully presented to you at the Caps Forum, I also know Foo sent you her statement on that incident. All was ignored because Revenue Giant is Big Business and affiliates like yourself get big checks from them. So if the company cheats a few of its players, naturally you are going to ignore the facts and look the other way.

As far as Zany goes I suggest you check that thread, this is the Vic’s thread.

:thumbsdn:

It was Foo who actually convinced me that Vic's Bingo did nothing wrong.

Hi Dominique,

I don't know how I convinced you that Vic's did nothing wrong.
I gave you the correspondence from them, which is exactly as I have stated.

I won fair and square, spent a lot of money doing it, and when they claimed malfunction to avoid paying me the money they owed, they said Parlay had discovered the malfunction.

When I contacted Parlay, they said they took my problem very seriously and were looking into the complaint, although they said they didnt usually get involved in customer complaints since they only provide the software, but they did want to look into this one.

Doesnt sound to me like Parlay knew anything about any such malfunction.

I believe that without offering any type of documentation or proof of a malfunction, and blaming it on Parlay, with Parlay seemingly not being aware of it, that they indeed did something wrong. They cheated me out of my winnings. And it was not just me. There are many others.

Vics did send me $1500.00. What they owed me was $10,400.00.

They said they would only send $1500.00 because they found that that was the amount I had in my account at the time of the so-called malfunction.

How in the world did I convince you they did nothing wrong??

From what I recall you said they reimbursed you and you accepted the reimbursement as settlement.

If you accept a settlement, the case is closed legally, it is implied that you agree to their asessment of the situation.

wow dominique! so I guess that means vics bingo is fine and dandy ripping off players closing accounts, threatening players by phone to remove their posts yet never replying to any saying that the players are in the wrong and they ( vics bingo) was right? never showing any proof of documenation that they was in fact a malfuction? and dense can some folks get?
foo says...
They said they would only send $1500.00 because they found that that was the amount I had in my account at the time of the so-called malfunction.
dominique replies....
From what I recall you said they reimbursed you and you accepted the reimbursement as settlement.

If you accept a settlement, the case is closed legally, it is implied that you agree to their asessment of the situation.

:confused:

No, that was in NO WAY, a settlement. That is all they would send of the $10,400.00 they owed me.

Of course, I now have to deduct $1500.00 from the amount they owe, since they sent this pittance in an attempt to shut me up.

No one was more surprised then I was when Vics refused to pay, and refused to show me why. And of course, the excuse they ended up with, about the malfunction, was after accusing me and others of creating some way to cheat. Yeah right.

It is not just me that they cheated. There are many others who have also posted their cases publicly. And now, if you read the posts that are out there, you will see that even one of their long time CM's had to walk away because she saw that they were, in fact, cheating their members. She tried hard to believe in them, but the truth was obvious. I also tried hard to believe in them, but they plainly cheated.

Dominique said:
It was Foo who actually convinced me that Vic's Bingo did nothing wrong.

I do not see where Foo convinced ANYONE that Vic's did nothing wrong. In fact, that was the major reason she began posting in the first place. DUH!! Because Vic's had cheated her.
You know this Dom.. and you know it well. You have been involved in this from the first. The pitiful part is that you DON'T GIVE A DAMN. It wasn't you who lost money so why not just try to turn it around to your way of thinking. I think you very probably made a very BIG public mistake with the quoted sentence above.
And to you, I say.... keep on defending Vic's, because we will KEEP ON letting all know they cheated players like Foo and some of her friends. The PROOF is there!! Eventually your piddly part of their income will fade too because sooner or later, ALL who PAY to play there will get word and go somewhere else.

And one more for the road.... pay up Jon Daley!! You cheated players.. they posted facts and it will NOT go away. WE who stand beside Foo and her friends will make certain of it!

I have been following this quite closely. I am unable to find any post that states Foo has accepted this $1500 as a settlement. Anyone who is owed money, will accept partial payments until the debt is paid. By taking a partial payment of what is owed in no way implies a settlement to me. I think Vics made a huge mistake here. Paying the players and then taking care of who did what in the office end is what they should have done. Let's not forget as well, Parlay was very surprised to hear there was a malfunction. Seems Vics liked the excuse, but forgot to tell Parlay to play along.

As usual Dom you side stepped my original question to you. Earlier I asked: Are you implying we ban sites for no reasons at all than go out and hopefully find proof we were right?

We do our best to represent Bingo Players issues to the Industry. We believe you to be a big part of this industry. Affiliates like you do have some clout with the sites you represent, but you turn your back when players have an issue with any site you affiliate with.

Sites are going to make bad decisions, but when affiliates like you back them up, it makes the whole industry look bad! Wake up and take notice or we will focus our attention on educating the public on how to register with sites, bypassing affiliates.

You need us Dominique, we do not need you or affiliates like you, that keep a blind eye, because it may cost the a few $$$$$. If you are not going to look after the players that sign up at these bad sites that you endorse, We will!
:thumbsdn:

There is probably a better evaluation process than basing the decision on the t&c page if you are going to represent yourself as an authority.

But if you're in it for the long run, who knows what will come of it. I'll keep a keen eye on the development, when your site matures and takes the responsibility that you've chosen more seriously it should be a great resource for players and affiliates alike.

Just in case Starnic is interested! This issue with Vics ripping off its players is still an ongoing issue, time may pass but players will remember how this site screwed many of its long time players out of a win by declairing a software malfunction.

Perhaps this post will lose top billing when Starnic post something like "Judge Judy rules in favor of bingo" see the complete story at starnic.com lol

You need us Dominique, we do not need you or affiliates like you, that keep a blind eye, because it may cost the a few $$$$$. If you are not going to look after the players that sign up at these bad sites that you endorse, We will!

Maybe you should do some research before you talk trash.

The reason G&C is such a big site is because for years it has always stood behind it's players all the way.

I don't own it anymore, but I am still always there for the players on that site.

Next time you throw around insults and accusations, do some research first.

That post has been on the board since July 26, 2006! That’s about 100 days ago and you are just replying to it? You were in position, at the Cap Forum, to help players with their issue with Vic's Bingo, but you turned your back to them! That is the reason you are unpopular with many Bingo Players.

That post has been on the board since July 26, 2006! That’s about 100 days ago and you are just replying to it? You were in position, at the Cap Forum, to help players with their issue with Vic's Bingo, but you turned your back to them! That is the reason you are unpopular with many Bingo Players.

Out comes the truth. It always does, sooner or later.

CAP is a professional affiliate board. You were spamming and flaming, the two things explicitly prohibited there. The professor threw you out and now you have an ax to grind with me because I moderate there.

That is the reason I am unpopular with you personally and the reason why you keep talking trash about me.

Had you come to CAP for advice on how to grow your board and make it more effective, or to resolve an issue with an affiliate program, which is the purpose of that message board, you would have found all kinds of support.

Flaming is not professional conduct.

Taking good care of your customers is.

There are ways to get CAP involved in player issues, but one has to tread carefully, because it's not a punters forum.

It's possible to get problem resolution there.

If a specific problem is presented in a professional manner it generally gets picked up and resolved.

If you come in and flame and make wild accusations, it's against the rules of conduct.

Imagine you have a board where bankers discuss banking. If you go in there and say: " Boycott Bank of America. They are all crooks and should be boycotted because they claim their ATMs malfunction and steal your money".

You will likely get ignored, and if you then attack the integrity of the members of that message board, you will likely be kicked out.

If you came in and said: " I deposited $100 at Bank of America's Manhattan main branch last Wednesday afternoon. They credited me with $1000 but then took it all back out claiming a malfunction. So now I don't have my $100".

This would likely get attention and get resolved.

dominique saiid: Out comes the truth. It always does, sooner or later.

It sure does Dom! LOL What happened to me at the Cap Forum is well documented, at WOL, BPU and OPU.

I went to Cap in good faith to report an injustice to my fellow Affiliates. It was a great presentation of just the facts of the Vic’s Bingo Issue and documentation to back up what was said. The Topic was linked to my site so the membership could follow its progress at Cap. The membership was witnessed to how their issue and me was treated by Cap Admin Staff, it’s still part of our record! Dominique, was a Mod there and the first to reply with:
Dominique said at Cap: Cyalater posts at other forums, shows no interest in the general forum as a rule except for his agenda and is not a supportive in any forum other than his own.
It was a put down from the very start. My post did spark some interest among some of the affiliates, but my efforts suppressed by Dominique and finally the Professor. If I were Spamming and Flaming, as you say, show the community your proof! Or do you regard your self as so powerful that we need to take what you say as face value?

Dominique said: CAP is a professional affiliate board
Well it may be a professional Board, but it surly is not Administrated by any professionals. What kind of administrator edits a post made by a member, and changes the words around to ridicule the member? The professor did that to my post and there is proof of that. This conduct is more childlike than professional. Dom you should have done your homework on this before you opened this can of worms again. This childish behavior, by you and the Professor, was posted in this very thread. http://mb.winneronline.com/showthread.html?t=24079&page=1 Check Posts 5 & 7 for details!

The records show that you Dominique had the opportunity to help a lot of players out with what Vic’s did to them. You had the power, but chose to use that power against me and the watch dog group. You big guys seem to think you are so far up there you can do anything please and get away with it. Maybe in the past this was true, but it’s a new game now.

Your frequent attempts to discredit me, have all failed. You may sway a few top affiliate heads with your posts, but the honest Bingo Player or Casino Player see you for what you are.

Do you really want to pursue this Vic’s issue further?

No, because it's a dead issue and has been for a long time.

The winner in question negotiated a settlement with Vics a long time ago.

You can't accept a settlement and then make more claims. If you want to push claims, don't settle. Stand up for what you are owed. If you accept a settlement anywhere in the brick and mortar world the case is closed.

That is what the problem with the Vic's issue is.

As far as this goes:


Cyalater posts at other forums, shows no interest in the general forum as a rule except for his agenda and is not a supportive in any forum other than his own.

That is exactly right (except for the omission of the word "poster")

You never made a single post on CAP that was for the benefit of the message board or any of it's users. You only posted your own agenda, I bet you never even read anything but your own thread.

You showed no interest in the forum, or any support for it, except for pursuing your own agenda.

When that is pointed out, you attack.

A forum is like someone's livingroom. You are a guest. You can start discussions, but you don't come in, sit down without paying any attention to anyone there, rant about your issue and attack people.

If it was my livingrooom, I'd toss you out too.

Dominique said:

Maybe you should do some research before you talk trash.

Cyalater posts at other forums, shows no interest in the general forum as a rule except for his agenda and is not a supportive in any forum other than his own.

And maybe you should use your own unwanted advice! Who in the hell died and left you to be in charge of how one should post or what one's agenda should be?? We all have our own agendas and post in forums to try to find solutions for them! All one has to do is read forums to know that Cya is very involved in issues that you and your "professional" , "self proclaimed high powered" CAPS friend, the Professor would just as soon skoot under the rug.

Cyalater8 said:

That post has been on the board since July 26, 2006! That’s about 100 days ago and you are just replying to it?

I find myself asking the same question? Are you bored or just can't find anyone else to stir crap with?

Dominique said:

CAP is a professional affiliate board

If I were you I would have put the Professors reply and your own negative posts right beside that!! Both of you more than showed the forum world just how flippin "professional" you were concerning the Vic's issue at CAPS.

Yes Cya was kicked out! Again, they didn't want to listen because he was right and you know it! He may not have said it the way you put yourself in a place to judge, but it got said and he did let the forum world and all the "little people" as the Professor called the paying player, know that we did not like what was going on.

Dominique said:

A forum is like someone's livingroom.

Maybe you should do some research before you talk trash.

And I think, Dom, that you should do the same. That is YOUR version of what a forum is, the following is the dictionary version.... they do not even sound similar!

1. the marketplace or public square of an ancient Roman city, the center of judicial and business affairs and a place of assembly for the people.
2. a court or tribunal: the forum of public opinion.
3. an assembly, meeting place, television program, etc., for the discussion of questions of public interest.

I think once again, you have opened your mouth and inserted your foot. One of these days you will come to the realization that your word is not FORUM LAW. We each have our own individual ways of posting, supporting forums and getting our point across. You do your thing and we will do ours! Doesn't make either of us right or wrong!

In the meantime, can't you find something a little more current to stir?? Might not be so obvious that you are needling if you do that!

I give you credit for your effort to put a spin on all this, but your efforts are in vein!
Dominique said:
CAP is a professional affiliate board. You were spamming and flaming, the two things explicitly prohibited there.
AND she also said:
It's possible to get problem resolution there.
If a specific problem is presented in a professional manner it generally gets picked up and resolved.
If you come in and flame and make wild accusations, it's against the rules of conduct.

I keep a copy of all my important posts and I have a copy of my first post on the Cap Forum that started all this. Keep in mind the report was lengthy, so in order to shorten it I included links to statements that backed up what I said. If that is called spamming, well I’m guilty as charged! If any of you see flaming remarks, please point them out!

The issue with Vic’s Bingo was an important issue, because it not only affected players, but also some Affiliates that had players sign up under their banners!

My post at Cap speaks for itself! Had Dominique not belittled my efforts from the get go, perhaps the outcome would have been different, the membership there was interested in the issue, but the Professor put an end to that! All this happened in open forum, so I’m sure many witnessed what went on.

Dom has never once addressed the Professors naïve and child like behavior of altering a members post! Ya this is a real professional site administrated by real professional jerks!

As I see it Dom wants to discredit me really bad now because I not only go after and expose rogue bingo sites, but now I also go after Affiliates that keep feeding these rogue sites with unsuspecting players. I’m hitting way to close to home and she don’t like that one bit!

Dominique said: A forum is like someone's livingroom. You are a guest. You can start discussions, but you don't come in, sit down without paying any attention to anyone there, rant about your issue and attack people.

If it was my livingrooom, I'd toss you out too.

And finally! On that subject of home! If you run your home like you administrate a forum, there is no way I would ever consider going into your home!

I have so much more I could offer readers about your conduct, but I think I have given you and your site too much attention already! The Following is a copy of my post at Cap:

Sat Apr 29, 2006 8:33 pm:

I have been reading this thread and Agree that Affiliates should read the players boards to see what players are encountering at the sites they promote. I am an Affiliate and also own the BingoPlayersUnion Forum, which is a players site! It’s not my contention to present Player issues here, there are plenty of players forums for that. I’m here because this is not only a player issue, but also an affiliate issue. And needs to be addressed!

On or about January 18, 2006 Vicks contends it did an upgrade to its Keno game; they added 50 cents and 1 dollar bets to the existing nickels and quarters games. On or about April 1, 2006 a player named foo hit 8 out of 8 numbers in Keno, three times, which pays 10,000 credits.
Her total win was $15,000! She continued to play and submitted a cash out request March 5, 2006 for $9,800 which left her with $2,100 in her account to play with.

At first Vic’s replied they will pay her, but also added “Management has reviewed your account activity and based on our investigation a decision has been made to disable your Vic’s Bingo account permanently. Per our website policies, Vic’s Bingo Management reserves the right to refuse or close any account at their sole discretion and void any winnings made.”. Foo’s complete statement can be viewed at this WOL link http://mb.winneronline.com/showthread.html?t=24079


It appears that others won in that timeframe and Vic’s took the position that all the wins were a result of a malfunction and frankly Parlay Entertainment did the upgrade and implied they (Parlay) caused the error. Vic’s/BingoHall president Jon Daley declared a malfunction and stated the wins wouldn’t be honored. See Jon’s statement here:
http://www.bingoplayersunion.com/viewtopic.php?t=515.

Needless to say the players were very unhappy with Vic’s decision, and the whole story came out! In the end Many players accounts were disabled and for a time it appeared that anyone with knowledge of the incident, was no longer welcomed at Vic’s. Jon Daley said:
Quote:
As a licensee we are put in the situation of losing some players over this issue.

One by one players that were faithful to Vic’s Bingo for over 4 yrs had there accounts disabled. If they knew you were posting in the forums against them, you were gone. In all fairness to Vic’s I think they reconsidered this and did reinstate some accounts.

But that happened too late, the damage, as far as players are concerned had already been done. Many players that were in this original group were either disabled or quit depositing there because they refused to honor wins. Here are some comments from some of the players involved, mind you not all the players involved in this posted. But this is a good sample: http://www.bingoplayersunion.com/viewtopic.php?p=2206#2206

So how does Vic’s action affect Affiliates enrolled in the Revenue Giants program? Well if foo clicked and joined Vic’s under your banner, you made $3600 in commissions since she signed up, give and take a few here and there. They lost people that have been with them for years. The Affiliates that were getting a commissions on all the people involved is a very large number. Vic’s not only stuck it to it’s players, but also it’s affiliates also.
The end result is players demanded a Boycott against Vic’s/Bingo Hall and all its sister sites. As a fellow affiliate the only interest Vic’s has shown in this whole issue is self interest.

In closing let me state what BingoInsider wrote in a post at OBN:

What I am posting is 100% TRUE

Vics bingo claims of software malfunction for not paying players on their keno wins is totally false. I have confirmed this with several people connected with this case.

If the software was not working properly, they would have disabled it on all their sites not only Vics. It's the same platform and software they are using on their sister sites. Bingohall and the other sites they own still have keno enabled.

Their software provider knows about this case and can not believe they are not paying people.

The best thing to do now is boycott all their sites and keep emailing and calling their software provider.

Also, this site should take down all advertising from these people.

This is pure thievery and gives a bad name to all honest and paying bingo sites.



For more background information please see: http://www.bingoplayersunion.com/viewtopic.php?t=439 and http://www.onlinebingo.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=387 Thank you OBN and WOL for your contributions.

Affiliates need to realize that readership at player forums is increasing at a dramatic rate! Today’s players are more informed in what is going on in the industry and are tired of being cheated. BPU (BingoPlayerUnion) was an affiliate or the Revenue Giant group but have sided with the players, and ended its affiliation with them. Any of you big guys out there that have a voice with sites like Vic’s, needs to tell them to pay their players.

Wow here it goes again. This is sad
This should be in the
RANTS and RAVES

Shouldn't have been stirred again in the first place!

Yeah, I should have known better than to stir a hornit's nest.

Just bugged me to see all that trash. Sorry it just generated more of the same.

Dominique said Yeah, I should have known better than to stir a hornit's nest.

LOL to funny
Dom your the best :)

You accomplished just what you set out to do Dom. Remember YOU are the one who started the "trash" on this AFTER it had been posted nearly 3 months.

From what I can see, Cya posted proof that there was NO flaming NOR wild accusations. He did ask you to point them out you know... Now just wiggle on back and wish you had at least kicked your brain in gear before you posted this crap again.

Like I said, you must be bored and I hope Cya is like me and has better things to do with his time than mess with with someone who obviously starts crap she cannot stand behind! Your piddly "nitpicking" is not worth my time!

Vic's cheated players PERIOD!! And the affiliates who stand behind them did absolutely NOTHING but turn the tables around and try to take the focus off by attacking Cya. Again, we are talking about your bread and butter aren't we?? It IS the paying player who LOSE that makes your living!

I used to have great admiration for you Dom, but you have changed that opinion dramatically.

Again, we are talking about your bread and butter aren't we?? It IS the paying player who LOSE that makes your living!

You don't get any sites growing big on that philosophy.

It is happy players that make a site do well.

Not that it makes much difference to the conversation, but you appparently missed the fact that I don't own Gamesandcasino anymore.

Here are all the complaints due to the 'malfunction' and how the new owner has delt with them....even though it was the old owners ( Jon) debt and bad choices that this is all a result of.
This issue was brought out between 2 forums....so if you do not recognize a name, that is why...but it covers all the complaints due to the malfunction.

Foo's lifetime deposits were 13,962, cashouts were 43,175 and they are still making payments acceptable to her.

Mayes4 is 950 deposits and 4,300 cashouts and they are still making payments acceptable to her.

mayes 17 is 1,000 deposits and 12,674 cashouts and they are still making payments acceptable to her.

ledoux is 6,650 deposits and 11,009 cashouts and they are still making payments acceptable to her.

That leaves redisallisee (the court case that was never verifiied or confirmed....and it doesn't exist, it was a lie.)

All these issues that have been satisfied are everything this boycott was based on.

The new owner has gone above and beyond excellent customer relations by making good on a debt that was someone elses, in my opinion.

Here are all the complaints due to the 'malfunction' and how the new owner has delt with them....even though it was the old owners ( Jon) debt and bad choices that this is all a result of.
This issue was brought out between 2 forums....so if you do not recognize a name, that is why...but it covers all the complaints due to the malfunction.

Foo's lifetime deposits were 13,962, cashouts were 43,175 and they are still making payments acceptable to her.

Mayes4 is 950 deposits and 4,300 cashouts and they are still making payments acceptable to her.

mayes 17 is 1,000 deposits and 12,674 cashouts and they are still making payments acceptable to her.

ledoux is 6,650 deposits and 11,009 cashouts and they are still making payments acceptable to her.

That leaves redisallisee (the court case that was never verifiied or confirmed....and it doesn't exist, it was a lie.)

All these issues that have been satisfied are everything this boycott was based on.

The new owner has gone above and beyond excellent customer relations by making good on a debt that was someone elses, in my opinion.
Lisa I just have to say good post.
It's great to see the truth on this.
Thank You
I would love to see what BPU has to say. :rolleyes:

Here is a Quote from my dear friend Malci to sum it up.
And I know Malci will not mind me sharing this with all of you.


Hello hello,

Thanks to my friends here I got the opportunity to first be aware of this cool forum and second to help clear few issues here seems to be unsolved.

Few facts dear friends:
1. On Jan 2007 New owners bought the whole operation of Revenue Giants which includes the following brands: www.bingohall.com www.vicsbingo.com www.slotsvillage.com www.winwardcasino.com www.southbeachbingo.com www.bingoformoney.com and www.internetbingo.com all are successful sites with a very good reputation among players.
2. The new owners (which indeed also the owners of 21.com) decided to keep the business and its wining team as is with the best management and support teams led by Marco.
3. Jon D is not working with us anymore since Jan 2007, nor Roo or Scott both since July/Aug 2006, all great guys I’m sure, shame but they are not working here.
4. Marco is one of the most honest reliable and truthful people, I am well known in the marketing business bingo/casino and I will not jeopardize it to be giving my word on something I am not 100% confident with and to post it on a forum. Anyone who describes him differently, truly don’t know him nor talked to him, and it is shame to suggest bad things on a person without checking the facts first, it is not fair and not professional.
5. New Management decision is to pay all players from the Keno event/error down to the last penny. They are paid by installments which they happily agreed to it, in order to be fair both sides. Also for the record Marco was the one to emphasis to the new owners/executives of the importance of this to be resolved for the players’ best interest.

Did I miss any issue or concern, let me know I’ll give you more facts..

And thanks for writing about us, bad or good.. if you wouldn’t… I wouldn’t have known about this forum.
If something needed to be corrected I would also be happy to assist, we are open to suggestions and have a 24/7 support team that are happy to assist to any players concern.

Feel free to email me directly as well if you like or anyone in BingoHall team with any question you may have and let me know if I can help in any way to clear more things in here.

But, Please ask first don’t accuse someone of lies when they didn’t and only had the best interest of the players in mind, this is why the business which established in 1998 is still one of the best bingo sites online.

Cheers,
Malci :-)
Affiliates <at> revenuegiants.com

Thank You,T.
You rock!

XOXO
Lisa

Thank You,T.
You rock!
XOXO
Lisa
Thank You Lisa You Rock Yourself.
You know after you posted something at that BPU and they got rid of your post what's that tell ya? The Truth Hurts.You post the truth and they don't what to hear it.But that's ok Malci came in to speak her peace as well.
Have a great day Sunshine.
Tom

just a quick note, thanks BingoT for adding my post here, and if anyone has any concerns thats the reason I regitered here as well, so you can let me know via email or IM.
Cheers, and have a nice weekend you all.... Malci ;)

just a quick note, thanks BingoT for adding my post here, and if anyone has any concerns thats the reason I regitered here as well, so you can let me know via email or IM.
Cheers, and have a nice weekend you all.... Malci ;)
Your Welcome MissM/Malci

Vic's cheated players PERIOD!! And the affiliates who stand behind them did absolutely NOTHING but turn the tables around and try to take the focus off by attacking Cya. Again, we are talking about your bread and butter aren't we?? It IS the paying player who LOSE that makes your living!

I used to have great admiration for you Dom, but you have changed that opinion dramatically.

WOW, I hadn't seen this thread until today. I guess I should read some more posts here!

All I can say is OMG! Vic's is now one of their sponsors! I guess we're now talking about THEIR bread and butter, eh? When I tried to point out that Vic's Bingo has more frequent winners than their then "hotseat" discussion about Cashmill,when they declared Cashmill as rogue because of frequent players (which they since retracted), my posts over there were deleted or moved and I was labeled a troublemaker who was trying to discredit one of their sponsors. I think they got more than bread and butter, I think they got some jelly to go with it.