To whom it may concern:

I have suspended Hitmob's posting rights until he contacts me and we come to some agreement. We've put up with no end of shabby behaviour and potty-mouthed posts from that boy and enough is enough.

For the record: I would be overjoyed to have Hitmob back as a full and contributing member if and when he manages to behave like a civilized member of our online community. Until that time he is not welcome.

It may be of some interest to our readers to know that almost all of the senior members of our message boards have contacted me privately in support of my effort to clean up our boards. Those that did not identify Hitmob by name as one of the primary agitators referred to him as "he who shall remain unnamed". Take that as you see fit.

Max Drayman
max@winneronline.com

yeah ban him for uncovering your association with mobsters and dodgy casinos who u accept hard cash from, then edit all his posts that prove this, keep covering your tracks Max

Our games are the most advanced and visually stunning instant-play games on the Web today. We re-create the feel of a real casino experience by putting players right in the action. It is this aspect of our game design that brings gaming enthusiasts back to our licensed casinos again and again.

In fact, a recent online reader's survey, by Winneronline.com, concluded that 81% of online gamblers prefer the no-download (Java) games.


Did you do this survey Max and help potential liscencees choose GSS??

Kelly = Hitmob. Exactly the same IPs.

Goodbye Kelly/Hitmob.

Max Drayman
max@winneronline.com

Ahh come on Max.. Hitmob does bring a different perception to things on this board and lightens it up a bit.. I enjoy his posts.

Damn hitmob, I go away for three hours and you have done pissed off max again.

You just cannot be left unattended for any period of time can you?

If you will PLAY NICE I WILL BEG MAX TO ALLOW YOU TO CONTINUE TO POST. I guess you really well are one of us? Ummm

What else was I suppose to say for that $50.00

Oh yeah. Your a valuable asset to this board. Oh yeah its getting deep now.

Max, Hitmob is a First class ******* at times but he is a friend. Now he is a friend without a place to post. ha ha ha

Please let him back even if only to grace our OPA little corner here. If he gets out of line again, I will kick his ass.

... I enjoy his posts.

Frankly, so do I ... most of the time. That's not the issue. The issue is that I'm trying to reduce the acrimonious behaviour on the boards. Hitmob is a primary offender and I think we all know that. He is not exempt from the rules, as much as he might like to think otherwise.

I repeat, I welcome the day that Hitmob returns to our boards as a full and contributing member, but that day will not come until he demonstrates that he is willing to respect the guidelines that we are asking all our members to observe.

In other words, yes, this is a very unpleasant thing to have to do but he has left us no choice. Sad, but true.

Max Drayman
max@winneronline.com

S hit Mop is funny. Especially his name S hit Mop. I enjoy S hit Mop's posts. I hope they make him a regular on Coronation Street or the East Enders.

Rainy

Ps please dont ban me.

We are never going to control what people say on the boards. If they get out of line just delete them.

Hitmob is a very valuable member to this forum, the OPA and everything good about online gambling. He is just upset that the owners of this board might be accepting advertisments from casinos on the OPA not recommended list.
And yes he gets carried away at times (most of the times we want him carried away) but he is the last person that should be banned from this forum.

When we came here from you know where we came here as a group. And a group is how we would like to stay.

[This message has been edited by Steve Adkins (edited 03-22-2001).]

Max you take this too seriously. Maybe a better solution would be to get a software package that allows an individual to ignore a specific user.

are you paid?

I have so many ip blocks that you would be banning me once a day for the rest of your life.

Max, here is the problem. On Gambling softwares site the results of a poll taken by winnersonline appears. He thinks you guys did that for GSS.

Were the results made available to the public?

I vote hitmob stays...oh this isn't up for vote is it?

Guys, I think we all more or less want the same thing. But what I need from Hitmob is respect for the efforts that we go through on everyone's behalf to present a constructive message board community.

I have no desire to "control" Hitmob. As a grown man it is my hope that he will do that himself. Unfortunately he seems to think that this is his personal shouting gallery where he can say any old thing he pleases. This is not the case.

I've asked him politely more times than I can remember to behave more appropriately. He ignores it all and then heaps his potty-mouthed rubbish on me. There is no way on God's green earth that that is an acceptable way to act.

I understand everyone's concerns and appreciate the feedback but my decision stands. Hitmob can change that in a heartbeat by contacting me and setting things straight. Until then things will remain as they are. Sorry guys, but I'm afraid that that's the way it's gotta be.

Max Drayman
max@winneronline.,com

Yes Hitmob can be as *ss, but he is just dysfunctional that way. Most of these people who have contacted you probably haven't done a single thing to help the online gambler.

Hitmob has done so much to benefit those of us who risk our hard-earned pennies online. So he raises hell, that's only his good side.

If God had wanted perfect people, he wouldn't have sent the "snake" into the garden. I wonder how many "scammers" were the ones who wrote you, after being flamed in here.

Hitmob a grown man? Are you sure about that?

Well this is the OPA forum and the OPA members want hitmob to stay.

I am outa here. :(

Kengam please contact max about taking over as moderator.

Hitmob a grown man?

Benefit of the doubt, always give 'em the benefit of the doubt. ;)

Max
max@winneronline.com

[This message has been edited by max (edited 03-22-2001).]

Well this is the OPA forum and the OPA members want hitmob to stay.

I understand that and if there was a way to make a distinction between Hitmob's OPA posts and his posts on the rest of the WINNERonline boards I'd entertain the option of doing so. Unfortunately that is not the case, it's all or nothing, and so we have the situation we now face.

Steve, I'm honestly sorry you feel this way. I had hoped that you of all people would understand what's really at stake here.

If we must part ways I wish you Godspeed Sir. May all your journeys be under friendly skies.

Max Drayman
max@winneronline.com


[This message has been edited by max (edited 03-22-2001).]

When a public forum starts "banning" people from posting I wonder about that forum's reasoning. After all the purpose of this forum is to exchange, or share, if you will, ones thoughts, feelings, experiences, etc. Although I don't find many relevant, enlighting, or morally uplifting thoughts from Hitmob's postings I have to admit that he does add a chuckle or two to my week.

What part of this that I find most distastefull is that this forum allows anyone the chance to share their views. Yet, because you find Hitmob's views distasteful you will edit them from me.

I choose to read these forums and I certainly know how to scroll past a posting that I find distasteful. However, I find it more distasteful that you believe that you have the right to make that choice for me.

Dearest Max, you may be a man of honor, a knowledgeable gambler, etc. but one thing you are not, is my moral keeper. If you want to be a moderator of a public forum then take the good with the bad and forget about the censorship.

Thank you, winneronline.com for a place where I am free to say what I think and to learn from others what I haven't been able to learn for myself.

Now shake hands you two and come out swinging because I am about to go into another PMS time zone and I need a good laugh.

Time

Since the start of the new rules here I have had to edit my own posts so as not to make personal attacks.

Max owns the board and sets the rules.
If we don't like it we can stay away. I have seen the emails from senior members here. It does no good to allow members to attack new members.

I have to say I have lurked here for over 4 months. After seeing the attacks Hit Mob made on people I decided I did not need that grief and so have not posted. I understand good debate but there is no reason to be so mean spirited and utterly degrading towards an individual when they ask a simple question.

I for one will now feel 'safe' to post. Hopefully I can add valuable information to the discussions here.

However I do look forward to Hit Mobs return when he can follow the guidelines the way everyone else does, until then he can be a pain at Casino Meister if they allow him there anymore.

Hit Mob, when I was first came here I thought you were cool but you just don't know when to bring it down bro. The way you are now you do not belong here.

It is bad with you since Max started the new commands, dude you walk around here like a bull who has had his nads cut off. You still want to be top dog but you are just a scrub now. Everyone can just tell you want to slam someone but you don't cause you know what will happen. Then you pull the biggest scrub move in town and post under your other name, oh so lame dude.

You are like the punk ass in the neighborhood who says well if I can't win then I will leave. Then the little punk keeps coming back becasue no one wants him anywhere else. Then someone finally gets tired of putting up with his crap and beats him down.

Well dude sorry to say but Max put the smack down on you. Go smoke some weed, get a girlfriend, listen to some tunes. Go work this out.

You belong on the radio waves. You are a different dude there. Good luck with the new career bro. You are obnoxious and that means you will have a long run on the talk radio sceen like Dr. Laura and that fat republican. Catch ya later

Oh so lets bash Hitmob since he cannot come here and defend himself. If you do not like what he says. DO NOT READ IT.

Mike has done more positive things for the online community then most of us combined has done. He is a very good person. He does however like to get peoples goats. Once he knows he has got it, he does not let go and that just angers that person. He might push it a little to far but come on people this is only a forum you know. Get a life! If your world revolves around what he says or who he says it to so what? When some moron comes on here and spams, I say Death to all spammers. I jump all over them. Geezzzzzzzzz

So lets not start bashing him. I do think he could lighten up sometimes but couldn't we all? yOU ALL KNOW THAT YOU HAVE ALL LAUGHED AT SOME OF HIS POSTS. Now that he has been suspended (not banned) you have to call him names and tell him to go smoke weed?

Pathetic.

CAN'T WE ALL JUST GET ALONG? I am going to try not to enter into this debate about him with anyone. He is my friend, and I will defend him regardless of the cost. I am proud to be associated with Mike.

Who is slamming HM? I said smoke a little weed cause it mellows me out and it might help. Cool you sticking up for you homey.

I like your last post/
You get your say it about Get a Life and then say CAN'T WE ALL JUST GET ALONG. Very Rodney King you are cool. Then if someone posts something bad it looks like they called you out. Just like THE ROCK.

I like the way you smack down dude. VERY down bro. If you think I was hitting him then YOU are wacked. I was saying go mellow out and then come back when you are cured.


Originally posted by Steve Adkins:
Well this is the OPA forum and the OPA members want hitmob to stay.

I am outa here. :(

Kengam please contact max about taking over as moderator.

Whenever a dude says I'm out of here and then comes back and posts we could have a new term. Oh man he pulled the old Hit Mob like we knew he would.

That is so cool.
Steve you are the best. In a smack down I want you on my side. Come back and smack it on bro! You rule!

As I also responded to this Psyche 101 side bet, I'd like Max to address the issue of whether or not to ban posters who are just doing head messing riffs.

If Hitmob was, shall we say, id-directed in his choice of diction, at least he was honest about trying to expose spammers and crooked operators.

I would like to make the point that deceitful and distracting posts harm the integrity and function of the forum just as much as do hostile and vulger posts.

Posters who are having fun making the volunteers providing assistance to the OPA fly around the room in hissy fits are taking time that we could be using to help players with their casino complaints. Yeah, we're anal retentive, who the **** else is going to bother with this casino crap? What are you going to do if we do get a life, bro?

Steve says "CAN'T WE ALL JUST GET ALONG? I am going to try not to enter into this debate about him with anyone. He is my friend, and I will defend him regardless of the cost. I am proud to be associated with Mike."

I want to count myself in with that and other comments regarding Mike's commitment to the OPA and to fair practice in general.

He has a highly developed sense of what is right and a wealth of experience in this business which he freely shares. And he identifies deceivers way before anyone else I have found.

Hitmob does on occasion go too far with the language, but that is more than balanced by the value and amusement he adds.

Surely for the benefit of a damned good board - and I am talking to both Max and Hitmob here - there is a compromise which can be reached which will give us a balance between the undoubted benefit of stronger personal self-discipline which Max rightly expects and the Hitmob's valuable contributions?

Come on guys - there is common ground here!

As for the psycho-babble drivel slieb1 posts - this is merely an irrelevant distraction and adds little to this debate.

I am privately emailing this comment to Hitmob BTW.

Max,

I must say I feel the same way as Steve et al.

Yes hitmob is occasionally over the top- but he does much more good then harm and as has been pointed out - if you dont like it you can skipreading his posts.

When I joined up here with some problems it was Mike that sorted them out for me and like Steve and Kyla have given me information and help.

Frankly the fake posts from spammers and pretenders are far more offensive and a waste of space than hitmob.

As to the complainants that don't name- AN ANONYMOUS COMPLAINT OR A COMPLAINT AGAINST ANONYMOUS should be ignored- If the complainant hasn't the courage of their convictions to name a person then their argument and character is weak.

Yes Hitmob has occasionally insulted me- but so what- I am a grown up - if he offends me I ignore him- that is MY choice! and anyway I worked out his warped sense of humour ages ago.

I think you should reconsider this (and BOTH of you leave out the ego fight)- many of your "longterm users" and the ones making some useful posts object to his removal and if you lose these guys the board will end up just another free- casinos type board with lots of spam, rather than a place where some serious,longstanding and informed players post and give information.

regards
Colly

Good news. I promise to double my click rate on this site.

Max, you cant ban me now go have a break you are biting the hand that feeds you, Ip bans wont work either.

Just admit you are warped

Hey Hitmob, welcome back.. LMAO

tra la lar

Max youre up early

Hitmob, are you calling yourself a wanker??? HA!

Max, I am with Steve. Hitmob is invaluable (and humorous) to the OPA threads.

I think the "suspension" of Hitmob does you no good. It is not that hard to IP block and to change your username. Therefore, you truly have NO POWER to "suspend" anyone.

I think this would be better resolved to email Hitmob and ask him to limit his posts to the OPA forum.

Max youre up early

Ya, having a little trouble with the message boards. How are you today Hitmob?

Max
max@winneronlne.com

.... ask him to limit his posts to the OPA forum.

Sounds good to me. Hitmob, does that work for you?

Max
max@winneronline.com

Have you guys "kissed and made up"? I sure hope so.

We have some REAL wankers out here ripping people off. And their unfortunate victims need the people here to pull together.

Ascot has gone belly-up. Tropika "geeked up" all their money. 07LadyLuck is a lost cause. These are problems. Hitmob's posts are not a problem. In the scheme of things, the "sensitive" people who are so offended by his posts, should be worried about the people who talk so nice while they are cleaning out their wallets.

No I prefer being suspended thankyou very much.

and grovelling like that wont wash with me young Max

No I prefer being suspended thankyou very much.

As you wish.

Max
max@winneronline.com

C'mon Hitmob, we all want you back.

It would be a compromise, not groveling. Compromising is what people do to work out their differences.

I am in total agreement with JETSET on this issue. Some type of compromise needs to be made on both sides. Whilst it is true that Hitmob has been a little irresponsible in his posts lately, I have enormous respect for him. Hitmob is extremely valuable to this forum and to the OPA, and has done enormous good for the online community as a whole. But he's also done his part to piss Max off.

Max has done a relatively good job overall moderating these forums. In most cases I agree with his decisions to delete/edit a post or to end a thread. But lately he has taken censorship to an extreme and I disagree with this. He has taken very tight control over these forums, and if he doesn't consider a post to have useful information to his liking, the person making the post has his prviledges suspended. Max needs to ease off a bit, but not to the extent of allowing the forum to be abused.

I am very surprised that both Hitmob and Max are acting like children lately. You guys have met each other in person at the ICE forum in London, and have had a chance to
talk. Its about time you iron out your differences and act like adults.

Chuck and Max have done a wonderful thing for the OPA. They've given the OPA major publicity through this forum. They didn't have to do this, but they chose to anyway.

Better yet, they published newsfiles giving the OPA and Casinogazette (at that time owned by Hitmob) lots of publicity.

In retrurn Casinogazette and the OPA have given the WinnerOnline forum enormous publicity.

Its a WIN WIN situation for everyone. Make a compromise for the good of all.

At the risk of getting ostracized, I must agree with Max that it's his house and he "has the right to refuse service to anyone".

However, a message board is only as good as the quality of the individuals who constructively support it.

I am in total agreement with Dailun on this issue. If setting up posting guidelines and enforcing them is childish then yes Max is childish.

Come on, Hitmob - Max has extended the olive branch. Work this thing out with a little give and take.

It looks as if more than 95 percent of the posts on this thread are pro S hit Mop (i love that name :) ) Get a sense of humor and let the guy do his thing.

Well Max has shown hoe unpopular his Communist regime is, and conversly this childish outburst of Max's has proven how popular and much loved I am.

so Max I will enjoy watching this place now be reduced to a low class clip joint, oh look it already had with mongy spamming posters already flooding in.

But thats what Max wants "coupons" being posted and stuff like that.

Bye Max I will leave you to play Stalin.

My opinion:

Having met both parties in person, I can say that they both have a genuine desire to be useful to this community.

There is a limit though - if the boards are disrupted by useless, crude, pointless posts then pretty soon there will be no use for this board as everyone else seeks greener pastures.

Hitmob, I am certain, will always be welcome here if he can act a bit more civilized on the boards. In person he is definitely a fun-loving guy but on the boards he comes across as a lout.

Solution? You guys decide for yourselves (Hitmob and Max or WinnerOnline). But Max is perfectly within his rights to try and restore some semblance of order here and I have to side with him on this issue.

--> edit <--
I forgot to mention that it is nearly impossible to ban someone by IP or user name as there are many different ways around this. If someone wants to make a post anywhere it's easy enough to do it. And thus banning is largely a useless exercise.

Unfortunately, that is one of the banes of running a public bulletin board.

Best solution would be some sort of negotiated truce as having to constantly delete posts which are either irrelevant or derogatory or whatever is simply time-consuming and in itself may cause even more of a disruption than there already is.
--> end edit <--

------------------
Spearmaster
Got2Bet - Online Gambling News and Information (http://www.got2bet.com)

[This message has been edited by Got2Bet (edited 03-25-2001).]

I was wondering where the voice of reason, Spearmaster was. Good post from a fellow site and forum owner.
_____________________________________________

SPEARMASTER SAID:

My opinion:
Having met both parties in person, I can say that they both have a genuine desire to be useful to this community.

There is a limit though - if the boards are disrupted by useless, crude, pointless posts then pretty soon there will be no use for this board as everyone else seeks greener pastures.

Hitmob, I am certain, will always be welcome here if he can act a bit more civilized on the boards. In person he is definitely a fun-loving guy but on the boards he comes across as a lout.

Solution? You guys decide for yourselves (Hitmob and Max or WinnerOnline). But Max is perfectly within his rights to try and restore some semblance of order here and I have to side with him on this issue.

------------------
Spearmaster

_____________________________________________

[This message has been edited by prosperity9035 (edited 03-24-2001).]

I too was wondering where the Spear came down on this
one. Nice to hear from you Spear, and many thanks for
the support.

I want everyone to know that I've read each and every
post in this thread about 4 times, some more than that.
I appreciate everyone taking the time to give their
input on this difficult issue.

For what it's worth I don't claim to be completely in
the right on this --the suggestion that Hitmob be
restricted to this, the OPA, Forum seems a far better
solution than an across the board ban-- but as has been
pointed out I feel it's come down to a matter of
cleaning up a messy situation and what I've done has
been the only choice I felt Hitmob left me.

At the end of the day the way things were going was
damaging much that I and the WINNERonline crew have
worked so very, very hard to achieve. When the other
senior staff at WINNERonline came to me Thursday and
expressed their serious concerns that something had to
be done I knew they were right and I decided to take
the bull by the horns. Fault me as you may for the way
I did it, but I have no doubt that the time had come to
take serious and effective action.

As to the question of autocracy and the dictatorial
methods some say that I have resorted to I remind you
all that (a) this discussion started with the statement
that all could and would be put right if Hitmob
contacted me to discuss it. I'd extended that offer to
him on numerous occasions before and was always
ignored. And (b) WINNERonline has only banned three (3)
people in the history of these boards. Two for
repeated cases of spamming and disregard for our forum
organization and now, the third, Hitmob, for innumerable
counts of unacceptably crude and abusive behavior.

Whether you agree or disagree with any of these
decisions you should know that it is our investment of
time, money and effort that is at stake here and we
must protect that investment to the best of our
abilities. And it is most certainly within our rights
to do so as we see fit. Of course we must live with the
consequences of whatever actions we take but the
unanimous support of the WINNERonline staff has always
been a prerequisite for any actions I have taken here.
We stand together on this.

I hope this helps to clarify where we are and how we got here.

Regards,
Max Drayman
max@winneronline.com

Max has put a conciliatory offer on the table and Hitmob seems to have spurned it. There doesn't seem to be much more to say, unfortunately.

I went back and read some old posts and I must say that it looks as if this banning business is a personal pissing contest,at least from where I sit. But what do I know, I'm sure there's more to this than what's on the surface of these boards.

Don't really see any 'damage' that has been done by HitMobs' postings. Looks like some old fashioned ball bustin is all, so I hope people stop "swinging their handbags" soon :) and grow some thicker skin.


[This message has been edited by Steve K (edited 03-24-2001).]

Whatever.

Trying to "raise grown people" is an impossible job. Unfortunately, Max seems to be in that position. I can respect that. If enough people are writing him about not coming here anymore because of Hitmob, he must have felt he had to do something.

It seems that the very thing that makes Hitmob so "unique", is the same thing that offends some people. I guess you had to "pick your poison" huh Max?

You're a good guy here, and I have to respect you for standing up for what you believe is right, whether I am in personal agreement or not.

Have a Good Day!

Ya Hitmob that is true.. only the few complainers e-mailed Max,, Max didn't hear from all the others who like your posts. He listened to a few complainers before making his decision.

Ah what difference does it make, he can't stop you from posting anyway..

I'll host the OPA forum...and I'd let the OPA decide who stays and who doesn't.

I am with you 100%. I am not a member of the OPA, but I dont frequent these boards of winneronline anymore becasue of Hitmob !!
He is a bonified Jackass!
Max, stand true to your word and maybe some of us might come back.

I believe Max is right. What is the problem with being civil. There is definitely a way to make a point without being rude and crude. Its a shame because having someone who is so on top of the industry is a huge benefit to players.

Hell this litany is boring boring boring....the gap between repeat performances is getting shorter and shorter!

[This message has been edited by vickinz (edited 03-28-2001).]