In compliance with Max's request, I'm shifting this into this bottom-of-the-list category, where we both know nobody will read it.

"Best & Worst" means both "Best" and "Worst" (staggering conclusion).

Cyber Croupier, Reef Club and Casino Bar are all examples of rogue casino; casinos that have cheated players, in one way or another, of their legitimate winnings, either by out-and-out theft or by using software that has been proven to be rigged.

Your response to G2B, who asked you "Do you mean you will move unproductive threads, and leave the productive ones?" was "Exactly!"

Do you consider the above mentioned quartet of threads "unproductive"? Did Cyber Croupier and Greef Club NOT steal legitimate winnings? Is Casino Bar NOT rigged?

If you must change the set-up, PLEEEEEEASE leave IMPORTANT, PRODUCTIVE threads in the MAIN FORUM.

In compliance with Max's request, I'm shifting this into this bottom-of-the-list category ...

Thank you. I can't put all of the forums at the top of the list so here's where we're at. Frankly I think the regulars do get this far down the tree every once in a while and for the most part that's good enough for me.

Cyber Croupier, Reef Club and Casino Bar are all examples of rogue casino ....

I think you know that that's not the point I'm debating here. In my honest opinion you folks are often in a far better position to debate these issues than I am and thus I usually leave it to you to do so.

Do you consider the above mentioned quartet of threads "unproductive"?

Frankly I have no idea. I go through a lot of threads caruso and there is absolutely no way I'm going to remember all of them.

As I've stated several times elsewhere, I would not move a thread because I liked or disliked what it said about a casino. However I would most certainly move or remove a thread that I thought was out of scope for a given forum.

If you can find the threads in question I'd be happy to try and explain my reasons for moving it. And if I deleted it then I'm quite sure I had a good reason. On that you'll have to trust me and I stand on my record here and my reputation with the regulars as justification for saying so.

If you must change the set-up, PLEEEEEEASE leave IMPORTANT, PRODUCTIVE threads in the MAIN FORUM.

As long as they comply with the goals and aims of the forums in which they're posted, they will stand. If they don't, they won't.

For example, I'm trying to lower the hostility level in BEST AND WORST. As our most popular and watched public forum I don't think that's an unreasonable thing to want to do.

Ok, so what _exactly_ does that mean may well be your next question. And it is a very good question to which there is not and cannot be an _exact_ answer.

That leaves us with guidelines and priniciples to steer me and us forward. Those are a little easier to discuss.

In the first place obviously anything that violates the Rules and Policies (www.winneronline.com/ubb-rules.html) or the Service Terms(www.winneronline.com/serviceterms.htm) is going to get moved or removed.

Secondly anything that is simply vitriolic spew is going to get the same treatment.

Thirdly anything that I see being excessively repeated (eg. same person ranting in on in half a dozen threads of their making about the same thing) with get "the treatment".

Fourth, I think anything that degenerates into pointless name-calling and haggling should be dealt with similarly.

Fifth, and this is where things are going to get touchy, posts that are simply of the "I lost 10 hands of BJ at Casino X. It must be rigged!" are going to get shuffled off to THE RIGHT ANSWER because they're really just soap-box rants.

Finally, posts that are merely attempts to sling ka-ka at this or that casino will be very closely scrutinized. If they're full of "you bastards this and you bastards that" then, again, they're just rants and chances are it's off to THE RIGHT ANSWER they go.

At the end of the day I think our debate comes down to this. Do we have a respectable track record of letting reasonable debates and critiques of casinos take place here on the message boards or do we not?

If we do then it comes down to having a little faith that we will continue to do so. An occassional reminder from our readers certainly won't hurt to keep us on the path.

If we do no have that reputation then there's no reason to believe what I say and every moved or removed thread is suspect. I submit to you that this is simply not the case. I think it safe to say that we are known to deal with reader content in good faith and there's every reason to believe we will continue to do so.

Now, to specifics. The shareholder complaint, among others, was that BEST AND WORST was becoming a dirty free-for-all and needed to be cleaned up. That is what I'm trying to do and where this debate started.

Does this mean "goo-goo gaa-gaa" posts only, as has been speculated, or not. I think not. There's no evidence to suggest such a thing and, in fact, I'd say that to suggest that does us a disservice. Look at our reputation, look at the track record, listen to our veteran readers and the conclusion you'll draw from each is pretty much the same: we deal a pretty straight hand here and it is unfair to suggest we don't.

So, after all that, I'd have to say "relax!". We're doing a little spring cleaning here, we're not turning the place into an advertising agency.

Regards,
Max.


[This message has been edited by max (edited 09-17-2002).]

Thank you, Max.

I humbly suggest that the following two threads belong in Best & Worst:

Cyber Croupier (http://www.winneronline.com/ubb/Forum10/HTML/000012.html)

Reef Club (http://www.winneronline.com/ubb/Forum10/HTML/000009.html)

There is no mud slinging, name calling or otherwise bad behaviour in these threads - other than the occasional acrimonious word aimed at a crooked casino manager (Cyber Croupier) or employee (Reef Club), and rather justifiable in the circumstances, I think you'll agree. They contain important, factual information, and the "veterans" participated with interest, in both cases. These are cases of "worst" casinos, and I seriously think they belong in the "Best And Worst" forum. They are unquestionably "worst"!

Regarding your "six points" - I disagree with nothing other than to say that regarding:

Fifth, and this is where things are going to get touchy, posts that are simply of the "I lost 10 hands of BJ at Casino X. It must be rigged!" are going to get shuffled off to THE RIGHT ANSWER because they're really just soap-box rants.

A perusal of a handful of my posts will tell you that I'm the usually the FIRST person to come down on this sort of thing, and I usually take some flack as a result ("Who do you work for, Caruso?"). These posts belong in "Jokers Wild", not "RA".

Point six ("finally...") is essentially the same, and I'd say the same about it.

Sorry to take up so much of your time, and a simple "no" would suffice in the event you don't feel that action on the above mentioned duo is required.

I humbly suggest that the following two threads belong in Best & Worst:
Cyber Croupier (http://www.winneronline.com/ubb/Forum10/HTML/000012.html)
Reef Club (http://www.winneronline.com/ubb/Forum10/HTML/000009.html)


Done. Guess I was a little quick with the trigger finger. Thanks for pointing it out.

Regards,
Max.

PS. Whoops! Seems to have been a snafu in the move operation. I'll get our tech guys to look into this and clean things up.

UPDATE: okay, looks like they're back. Hopefully that's the end of that.


[This message has been edited by max (edited 09-17-2002).]

Good decision.

See my post in B & W, Max. Thanks.

Originally posted by caruso:
See my post in B & W, Max. Thanks.

No problem caruso, thanks for meeting me half way on this.

Regards,
Max.

In amongst the humble suggestions and requests, I wish to make a demand.

More smiles. Please.

OK. Pretty please?